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Discussion The push to replace/heavily imply Otokonoko charachters as trans/non binary is becoming a big problem.

Thread Description
Spoiler warning for some series , Starting a discussion on the push for traps and otokonoko to be considered trans/Non Binary.

Styner

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Unsure if a topic like this already exists if it does er shit my bad...lack of sleep.


I want this to be a thread about characters who are being pushed to be considered trans, so post examples,I don't know how exactly to phrase it or how what to correctly call the topic.

The reason I started this thread is a mix of the bridget drama and because of a thing that happened last night, I was on Twitter and seen this tweet and the interaction between them and the femboy character ideas account and it ticked me off how they just kept lying about the character to push the idea and narrative.


Archive

This is not even close to true, but because the manga is old and somewhat obscure.

They used a different manga by the same author that some fans claim is a spin off, but the author denied as proof that it was the same character.


It's highly disturbing the length at which people are going to, to write off otokonoko as eggs.

There's tons of more characters that are being treated this way and that people are pushing to call trans.

Some Common examples of this include and these are three examples they want to claim.

Chihiro Fujisaki(Danganronpa) the argument is that the story was written as a trans story, but the author was a coward.

Luka Urushibara(Stein's Gate) this one is complex, but anyone who actually played the games knows Luka isn't trans, the whole character is internalized homophobia and the idea that only if he was a girl would he get his ideal romance with the MC.

Astolfo(Fate Series) heavily implying it because of a joke on his servant page in his first appearance, and then in fgo the lack of certain gender skills working on him and lack of gender mentioned and using they/them in its translation.
 

Hexasheep93

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Idiots and groomers from twatter are always going on about femboys and traps beign trans because they cannot live in a reality where they are not the center of attention. This is sadly something that has been foing of for years now sadly, just another topic tge internet likes to go apeshit over:mokou-lying:
 

Styner

varishangout.com
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Idiots and groomers from twatter are always going on about femboys and traps beign trans because they cannot live in a reality where they are not the center of attention. This is sadly something that has been foing of for years now sadly, just another topic tge internet likes to go apeshit over:mokou-lying:
Oh I agree it has always been a problem, but now with the whole Bridget thing , They've all gone mask off , and are getting more attention for it, and people believe them. :dead-inside:
 

NretsewThePerv

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yea it's ironic that for a group of people who claim to be "inclusive" and hate briary they sure to love to make everything into a briary

I think a big part of the problem is envy, they see how everyone lusts after the cute traps and femboys as they are more attractive to even 100% heterosexual people than they ever will be despite pumping themselves with HRT and getting surgery. so instead of coping and dealing with the fact people dont want to fuck them they have to try and "claim" these popular attractive characters as one of their own so they can feel validated in their own miserable existence. the fact there exists a group of people that is not them yet is seen in a positive light triggers there naraccascim

something that got me Twitter slapped once was saying "everyone loves traps, no one loves a tranny" and I think that still holds true even today, everyone loves characters like Bridget and Astolfo. they are cute, attractive and have fun personalities people can relate to. but these troons on Twitter have none of these indearing qualities and are mad people dont treat them the same way

in the end tho it's all power games. they want to be able to control what people like. so dont let them. keep using the word trap. keep telling them they are fucken stupid and to cope seethe and dilate if they come after your traps

No_Homo.png
 

VidMasterEon

varishangout.com
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Screenshot_20220814-140309_Brave.jpg

If not for their foolish overreach with the koisuru localization, our adversaries and normalfags could easily dismiss this trend as mere paranoia

It was an omen that the hunt was afoot when the "trap is a slur" talking point started despite the fact that if i wanted to call a troon a slur i have a lot better ones at my disposal that a 20+ year old term from the anime community with positive connotations

Everyone has different reasons as to why troons hate traps like the jews hate the amalekites but i also think envy is the likely cause
 

Hexasheep93

varishangout.com
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First of all that move is obvious corporate pandering. :gura-pain:

That said it does not belong in this thread as this is about femboys and traps being made into trans characters either by the idiot mob of twitter or by shitty localizers. Since this is afaik, an original character it would not fall under this thread. :shrug:

But hey if op is ok with it then its fine :flan-yea:
 

Styner

varishangout.com
Regular
I think It's fine its like a sub-part of what the main focus is , either way it is the same core idea of "Pushing Trans/NB labels on a character" also skimmed through the article
1660648113493.png

KEK they are fucking reaching.
1660648007458.png


It's exactly like the Bridget thing nearly Journos and idiots ran with one line or one small thing and preach it as a fact.

and as a result that community gets even louder and more obnoxious.

I'm predicting in game when she is called a she they'll turn on Nintendo again
 

Lost Branch

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I figured it was similar because Ninitendo didn't refer to Shiver as a him or her, which is how Bridget is referred to in some of the promotional material, so I'm assuming Shiver is supposed to be another otoko no ko type character.

It's probably off topic, but the funnier thing is that it'll piss that crowd off no matter what happens. If they use pronouns, "you're destroying non-binary representation!". If Shiver is a otoko no ko, then it can be seen as a straight "relationship" because these people don't know what yaoi/yuri baiting is, so they can only see friendships as an actual relationship (which is how they view Pearl and Marina from 2).
 

translation gundam

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another aspect with traps, is with most of them they are characters that are comfortable with themselves & who they are.
they don't care if people think there effeminate or they might be gay, to them they are themselves and that's all they need to be.

I feel that a lot of the jannyes are jealous of this self confidence because these people aren't even confident with themselves.
so of course they would try and destroy traps, like the spiteful mutant's they are.

Kinoshita.Hideyoshi.full.194745.jpg
 

Taruby

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Starting a discussion on the push for traps and otokonoko to be considered trans/Non Binary.

I'm still trying to fully understand the current situation, since I have not played Guilty Gear Strive. But something that's worth pointing out is Bridget's new head ornament. In the original Guilty Gear XX, Bridget had the sign for 'male' (♂) on his headwear. And in Strive, they changed it to the symbol for 'transgender'⚦ (it's the male ♂ and female ♀ symbol combined):
FZsJAZqaUAAX9eE.jpg


I saw Best Mom Eva's tweet about sexual colonialism, and thought I could give some context about the Japanese TSF community and Bridget.

TSF stands for Transsexual Fiction. Its English counterpart is Transgender Fiction, or TG. The Japanese TSF community is closely associated with those interested in '男装・女装' (Crossdressing) and '男の娘' (Otokonoko). Before Otokonoko, the words used to describe such characters were 'オカマ' (Okama), 'ニューハーフ' (New Half), '女装少年' (Josou Shounen), and '女装子' (Josouko). However, these words carried with them a real world nuance that is often derogatory (e.g. Okama), and referring to a character as a transvestite suggests an intention. Otokonoko, as a word, does not carry any of this baggage, and therefore started to be used on the Japanese internet since the early 2000s. Its popularity sparked in 2006 when it was used for the first time in public for a TSF Doujinshi event called '男の娘COS☆H' (Otokonoko COS☆H), which catered to fans of女装 (Crossdressing)・ふたなり (Futanari)・女体化 (Transformation into a Girl), 異性への憑依 (Spiritual Possession of the Opposite Sex), and so on.

In 2002, Guilty Gear XX would be released and Bridget would appear as a character in it. Bridget was originally a female character when the project first started, but was later changed to be male by Ishiwatari Daisuke. People in the fandom would tag Bridget as '女装少年' (Josou Shounen), but Bridget eventually became a prime example of an Otokonoko character. In the Doujinshi community, it wasn't uncommon to have Bridget become a Futanari or New Half, and one of the earliest Doujinshi had Slayer transform Bridget into a girl with Midnight Bliss (a special move from Capcom's Vampire series) and rape him, turning Bridget into a girl both physically and mentally. A common theme in TSF is that your sexual identity can be changed, and all it would take to turn someone gay or female mentally is being penetrated by a penis. I read a post in another thread about Bridget resigning to a fate of being female in a bad end, and that's the logic behind that kind of ending existing.

Bridget exists in a fan community that purposefully created words and fantasy logic to avoid an association with reality. Another example of this is I recently picked up a Tokuten Disk for an old TSF game released in 2005 written by Piyomizu and illustrated by Moritan, and in the character profiles, the main character's older sister, Shizuki, was described as having Autism (自閉症). No where else was Autism used to describe her in any public product page or within the game, and when I thought about it carefully, I don't recall ever seeing Autism being used to describe a fictional character in all my time on the Japanese internet. So I did a search on Getchu to see if I could find similar Bishoujo games with '自閉症', and there's only one game released in 2005 called 'Swan Song' that had a heroine with Autism. This is important because one could diagnose many people in the anime fandom as having Autism, and many could interpret the behaviours of fictional characters to be Autistic, but people don't really use this word to describe their characters; it carries baggage with it from the real world. Words like 'マイペース' are preferable for such fictional characters; the 2D world is meant to be cute and fluffy.

So that brings us to Best Mom Eva's tweet about sexual colonialism. Trying to officially turn Bridget into a girl with a transgender identity, and referring to fan treatment of Bridget as transphobic, is an encroachment of the real world into the world of fantasy. This is the big difference between Japan and the West. In Japan, Bridget gets a subtle change as a nod to the TSF community, and the West just tries to bludgeon their players with it; making the character far less interesting and mysterious.

EDIT:
Japanese Discussion on the Headband:

Essentially, Ishiwatari Daisuke wasn't really involved in writing the story for Guilty Gear XX, and he didn't put much time into Bridget. By putting more thought into Bridget as a character, he stepped on the toes of the Otokonoko fandom by using the transgender symbol for Bridget in Strive. There's mixed feelings on how much western political correctness influenced Ishiwatari when he decided to include that symbol. Though, I recall before Guilty Gear XX was released, they kept Bridget being male a secret from players, so when fans who saw the character, and thought he was female, found he was male, there was a backlash that eventually simmered down into 'it's OK for a male to be cute'. Maybe the same will happen here? Dunno. Hopefully, it doesn't wind up being similar to Samus Aran from Metroid where her original creator decided decades later to flesh out her backstory, and in doing so, he ruined the fandom's head canon of Samus Aran.
 
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Hexasheep93

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Ok please tell me if I got it right or wrong.

Bridget as an otokono was used with more nuance in the japanese sphere and depending of the work it has been interpreted as a trap, new half or futa this was not done with any agenda in mind.

So tl dr the bridget stuff is a nod to a subculture in Japan that westerners seem to have misinterpreted.

Is that correct?:anime-think:
 

VidMasterEon

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This (⚦) is not the sign for transgender, it's the symbol for an androgynous individual. This (⚧️) is the symbol for transgenderism. Anyone claiming otherwise is either ignorant or trying to take that symbol for themselves.
Yeah the one on bridgets head is the androgyne symbol as in androgenous

Pay attention to the sleight of hand these kind on people use
They will claim that japan is absolutely onboard with lgbt nonsense but will attempt to launder the comparatively benign with the indefensible
They will say japan has pride parades too but you will notice an absence of adult men with their dicks hanging out and ones in full fetish gear around young children
They will try to lump mishima in with teaching elementary school students about sex and masturbation
They will say that japan is ok with transexuals but would not be onboard with puberty blockers for childre and vaginoplasty/phalloplasty/masectomies for teens
Remember to call them out on that bullshit
 

Styner

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The counter argument you are going to get is "But it's facing the same direction as the trans one." I've already seen people point it out, and get hit with that, some people just won't accept facts is the problem.

Too busy not actually doing anything with the game or series and just complaining and ranting about representation.

Seen people try and use the steam tag as evidence because it has LGBT+ on Bridget's DLC, despite the fact that's fan tagged
 

Lost Branch

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Pointing out the direction thing is stupid because you start getting into symbology arguments which is borderline pseudoscience. It's clear it's only in that direction because it's more aesthetically pleasing to the eye since it follows the curve of the head. Every argument for Bridget being a "her" is subjective, reaching, or ignoring full context.

A person who gets a flawless run on their first go will never see the line of "I'm a girl", they will only see Lewis constantly calling Bridget a girl and getting corrected each time and the conversation between Ky and Bridget where Ky just tell him to be a man then Bridget stating it's time to go home and be myself. For anyone who knows the character, has played the character for 20 years, and only gets this ending will just think Bridget will go home to be a man.
 

Styner

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Regular
I figured it was similar because Ninitendo didn't refer to Shiver as a him or her, which is how Bridget is referred to in some of the promotional material, so I'm assuming Shiver is supposed to be another otoko no ko type character.

It's probably off topic, but the funnier thing is that it'll piss that crowd off no matter what happens. If they use pronouns, "you're destroying non-binary representation!". If Shiver is a otoko no ko, then it can be seen as a straight "relationship" because these people don't know what yaoi/yuri baiting is, so they can only see friendships as an actual relationship (which is how they view Pearl and Marina from 2).
Nintendo confirmed shiver is a woman.

Cringe article but has the fact they reached out and got an answer.

https://www.theverge.com/2022/8/24/...eep-cut-nonbinary-female-inclusivity-nintendo
 
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