Localisation The Shitty Localizers List

Localised content

HataVNI

varishangout.com
you are basically saying "do nothing"

consumers should be informed about what these people are doing. how else are we going to find more like-minded people who can help in building something new? the word needs to be spread about the issues or nothing would get done

also, OAG is a sperg and most people would agree. he is also fucken dead and you can no longer use him as a straw man of what we are. what you just did there was very dishonest and you prob don't even realise it.

how very cartel of you. it's not a "traitor list". it's a list and documentation of the bad actors in the industry. its something that's needed and the fact this forum has seen an uptick in users over the last few days due to them finding out about it should say something
Yes, spread the word. That is good. But do it in an informed manner and not as a loudmouth. No one will take you seriously if you're militant. As you see, when someone went out of their way to do the comparisons for the Yen Press light novels where there was lots of text cut, it eventually reached the company and the discourse reached the public eye at the same time.
 

NretsewThePerv

varishangout.com
Regular
What makes you less of a sperg when you go out there and bully people who have probably been your brethren in the past but are now tainted in your eyes by the bad wolf localization company? If you knew how many localizers that you hate now , who were the fansubbers you might have admired under their pseudonyms in the past. Quite a lot actually.

did you not even read my first response to you mate? considering you did not even address most of it I'm gonna assume no

I'm not "bullying" anyone. I don't go out of my way to contact these people. I let my money talk for me

the only thing I would do is spread the word and let these peoples own acts and words speak for themselves, but that can't happen unless its documented

also, I don't fucken idolize people who fansub shit cuz that's gigagay and idolizing random people on the internet cuz they translated something is stupid
 

limpandazure

varishangout.com
Patron of the Forums
I'm saying though that living in a politicized world (or the USA for that matter) might influence you to see representation and politics everywhere. I'm saying that it is simply what they see when reading the original text. They aren't even aware of their biases - obviously that isn't meant to be an excuse.
They are aware. They have had them pointed out.
It is an excuse, even if you didn't mean it.

Unfortunately social media has become the standard platform to address anything, and social media is mediated to exacerbate conflict for engagement. We, all of us, have been conditioned to produce replies, posts, responses to elicit the maximum outrage, chuckles, and gatchas, groomed by the likes, RTs, and other interactions they garner. Social interactivity has been fleeced by companies for dollars and we are left with piss and vinegar. Some of us are more resilient to this than others, but for younger and younger generations, this method of interaction is standard and expected. It's sad that it has impacted this hobby as well.

But it is up to each of us to recognize it and consciously change to be better people, even if we fall back into it now and again. The problem with liberal though however, is that no one is responsible for their individual failures (no one except the outgroup of course). Every failure is the secondary result of some externality. "They can't help it, because this is like this." This is what a lot of your responses feel like. "Yes, it is wrong, but they grew up like this embedded in this environment blah blah," but here I am, able to fling shit with the rest, but I am choosing to have a respectful dialogue in hopes lurkers following this thread, watching you talk to us, may recognize some of the concerns lodged are worthy of consideration.

That's my goal, at least. Hopefully someone watching can say, "well yeah, maybe I can do better about this." All I can do it hope and take advantage of your decision to jump in.
 

HataVNI

varishangout.com
did you not even read my first response to you mate? considering you did not even address most of it I'm gonna assume no

I'm not "bullying" anyone. I don't go out of my way to contact these people. I let my money talk for me

the only thing I would do is spread the word and let these peoples own acts and words speak for themselves, but that can't happen unless its documented

also, I don't fucken idolize people who fansub shit cuz that's gigagay and idolizing random people on the internet cuz they translated something is stupid
Okay, that is fair. Not buying stuff is a way of protest too - but it is a weak form a protest as the anime company simply doesn't care about a few sales less when it is a multibillion dollar industry. In this regard and for my particular topic of VNs, however, less sales actually hurt badly in niches like that. the VN/Eroge industry is ridden by piracy in degrees that cannot be neglected so boycotting there actually causes damage in the long run.
 

NretsewThePerv

varishangout.com
Regular
Yes, spread the word. That is good. But do it in an informed manner and not as a loudmouth. No one will take you seriously if you're militant. As you see, when someone went out of their way to do the comparisons for the Yen Press light novels where there was lots of text cut, it eventually reached the company and the discourse reached the public eye at the same time.

yea.... and we do shit like that too. don't know if the thread is still around as I think it may have been merged but I recall we had a thread about that someplace
 

Grönsak

varishangout.com
:cirno-laugh: I'm sorry but that's the most hilarious thing I've read all day. :cirno-laugh:
Okay, that is fair. Not buying stuff is a way of protest too - but it is a weak form a protest as the anime company simply doesn't care about a few sales less when it is a multibillion dollar industry. In this regard and for my particular topic of VNs, however, less sales actually hurt badly in niches like that. the VN/Eroge industry is ridden by piracy in degrees that cannot be neglected so boycotting there actually causes damage in the long run.
And that's the sort of damage we are trying to cause so they are forced to change or quit.
 

salty_apollyon

varishangout.com
Regular
Patron of the Forums
The person that put sus into the nagatoro sub probably thinks that it matches the audience addressed and the zeitgeist of when that show was released in. The original expression was "kyodoru" I believe, which means "acting suspiciously" (from kyoudoufushin ni naru 挙動不審になる). In the end I believe they simply thought it was funny - and it backfired on them. Now the compromise would be to think twice about the decision next time. But here we see the bias: You see on twitter for days on end that every second guy does an among us reference and it is considered funny based on RTs and likes- why would this not make you think that it is something that feels familiar and could be resonating with the audience. If it doesn't then you did fail and must face the consequences -namely public scrutiny.
again this is back to the point of being a professional, no one is asking localizers to be some kind of dave chapelle, we're asking for a translation
and let's not even mention the fact that this guy went onto twitter and then bragged about it because im arlready trying too hard to keep my cool
What makes you less of a sperg when you go out there and bully people who have probably been your brethren in the past but are now tainted in your eyes by the bad wolf localization company? If you knew how many localizers that you hate now , who were the fansubbers you might have admired under their pseudonyms in the past. Quite a lot actually.
i always consider a person mostly by what they are in the present, if they do shitty things (which they are doing) in the present then im not gonna tolerate it
 

Tamamo

varishangout.com
Regular
How would that even be possible? The editor usually doesn't speak Japanese or just rudimentarily understands it. An editors job is to make the text as readable and well-flowing as possible with the goal of rendering the text in a way that it doesn't look like it was translated but written in grammatically correct, appropriate English prose.

In a localization context the editor and the translator work together trying to imitate special dialogues and accents to emulate them in specific ways that mirror the differences in the original. This is difficult however because applying certain accents while in Japanese they might just use different sentence endings or specific words just spoken in that particular dialect; in English, however, some dialects might not even be considered readable for the average English speaker. This is for example the case with the Dragon Quest games where every village has a particular dialect which makes it stand apart from other villages. (In German they did the same btw and it is as jarring and difficult for someone who just grew up with High German). In Eiyuu Senki GOLD for example it is a game about global conquest and imperialism where you end up conquering different areas all over the world to let the self-govern as part of Zipang. The English version makes every character speak in a particular dialect fitting that area and adds funny quirks and gaffes to give them soul. The editor makes sure that all these variations are properly spelt and fitting the particular character voice used.

TLDR; Translator translates the text and the editor imbues it with life (and sometimes memes when appropriate).

So if the editor and translator have such a tightknit working relation in your field, who is there to keep them on a leash to stop them from injecting memes, politics and other crap that wasn't in the Japanese text? Nobody?

Is that how we ended up with Esty Erheart being renamed to Esty Dee in Atelier Meruru because there was no one around to tell them that renaming characters for the sake a dumb joke is a terrible fucking idea? Not to mention immensely disrespectful to the creators of the game.
 

NretsewThePerv

varishangout.com
Regular
Okay, that is fair. Not buying stuff is a way of protest too - but it is a weak form a protest as the anime company simply doesn't care about a few sales less when it is a multibillion dollar industry. In this regard and for my particular topic of VNs, however, less sales actually hurt badly in niches like that. the VN/Eroge industry is ridden by piracy in degrees that cannot be neglected so boycotting there actually causes damage in the long run.

well if they dont care about my money then it won't matter that I keep it in my bank and get to watch that number go up then. you might consider it a weak form of protest but the number in my bank would beg to differ

I save so much money not buying fucked shit that I can save and or spend on over things. it costs me 0$ to not support people who hate me and everything I stand for

it doesn't matter to me if my money is replaceable to them. ill just move to something else more deserving
 

HataVNI

varishangout.com
They are aware. They have had them pointed out.
It is an excuse, even if you didn't mean it.

Unfortunately social media has become the standard platform to address anything, and social media is mediated to exacerbate conflict for engagement. We, all of us, have been conditioned to produce replies, posts, responses to elicit the maximum outrage, chuckles, and gatchas, groomed by the likes, RTs, and other interactions they garner. Social interactivity has been fleeced by companies for dollars and we are left with piss and vinegar. Some of us are more resilient to this than others, but for younger and younger generations, this method of interaction is standard and expected. It's sad that it has impacted this hobby as well.

But it is up to each of us to recognize it and consciously change to be better people, even if we fall back into it now and again. The problem with liberal though however, is that no one is responsible for their individual failures (no one except the outgroup of course). Every failure is the secondary result of some externality. "They can't help it, because this is like this." This is what a lot of your responses feel like. "Yes, it is wrong, but they grew up like this embedded in this environment blah blah," but here I am, able to fling shit with the rest, but I am choosing to have a respectful dialogue in hopes lurkers following this thread, watching you talk to us, may recognize some of the concerns lodged are worthy of consideration.

That's my goal, at least. Hopefully someone watching can say, "well yeah, maybe I can do better about this." All I can do it hope and take advantage of your decision to jump in.
This became really philosophic, but you sure are right. Social Media is the bane of communication.
Anyways, the potential way to remedy these issues are manifold. In VN/Eroge for example "restoration-patches" are not a rare thing. It is probably not big effort to download a show, remedy the changes and upload a new subtrack for everyone to download. Then you spread the word that people do download that new subtrack to use. It is much less effort than like retranslating a whole show and it would surprise me if that wasn't done already.

"no one is responsible for their individual failures"

The public makes them responsible for their individual failures. You may believe that localizers are not phased by having their work critiqued because they can keep up airs, but they sure do. Even more when they consider themselves "artists". No one likes it if a lot of people do not appreciate the product you have been satisfied with.
 

NretsewThePerv

varishangout.com
Regular
Ok. I can't dig up an excuse for that. That is truly condescending shit. How appalling.
so you can see what we are talking about here a bit.

like I can on some level agree there needs to be some give and take. but respect is earned not given. and these people have pissed away most peoples respect long ago

It's why I somewhat respect you a heck of a lot for even taking the time to talk to us here. and why I've been (I hope) somewhat respectfully. and if any of these people despite how much I hate them. where to at least try and address some of our concerns honestly I would be more than happy to respond in kind

but we can't even start the healing if these people just keep acting like this even if we try to be nice
 

HataVNI

varishangout.com
So if the editor and translator have such a tightknit working relation in your field, who is there to keep them on a leash to stop them from injecting memes, politics and other crap that wasn't in the Japanese text? Nobody?

Is that how we ended up with Esty Erheart being renamed to Esty Dee in Atelier Meruru because there was no one around to tell them that renaming characters for the sake a dumb joke is a terrible fucking idea? Not to mention immensely disrespectful to the creators of the game.
There are many factors that go into renaming characters - not entirely always the fault of the localizers themselves. Sometimes companies have weird weird expectations how they want their character names to be rendered - the last example I remember is probably Rewrite where a character called Shizuru was rendered as "Sizuru" because that is the Japanese kunreishiki 訓令式 way of spelling that name. I personally hate renaming characters because the Japanese love using name kanji and readings as particular wordplay that sometimes even has an impact on the story itself - really tough stuff when you have to face that. Different translation schools also have different opinions about this so it is an individual decision whether names are changed or not. Sometimes it is done to give characters something "iconic" because they think a common English name might be more memorable (and easier to pronounce) than for example "Hiromi". This is simply because Americans/English speakers tend to want to have their text read as familiar as possible. There is even the idea that keeping Japanese names (and their accompagning honorifics) is an expression of orientalism because people find JP names so cool and fancy!

Either way, I'm against localizing names since the advent of Detective Conan (or Case Closed for the anglos) where they changed every character and made it impossible for me to familiarize myself with that version. The German version for that anime for example kept all the names intact and no one ever complained.

so you can see what we are talking about here a bit.

like I can on some level agree there needs to be some give and take. but respect is earned not given. and these people have pissed away most peoples respect long ago

It's why I somewhat respect you a heck of a lot for even taking the time to talk to us here. and why I've been (I hope) somewhat respectfully. and if any of these people despite how much I hate them. where to at least try and address some of our concerns honestly I would be more than happy to respond in kind

but we can't even start the healing if these people just keep acting like this even if we try to be nice
I can feel your anger and respect you want to be respectful, but I repeat again that I just talk here as an individual and not on behalf of specific brand of localizers who probably would have recurring nightmares if I were to represent them. In a way I kinda hope that me showing up here encourages other localizers (and aspiring ones) to do so too so a discourse can be woven.

Also I got nothing to do, I finished QCing our newest German TL for a switch game and just sit here chilling to some Doujin-Works from DLSite and type in a forum about my personal view of the scene I aspire to be a part of - without the condescending part.
 

salty_apollyon

varishangout.com
Regular
Patron of the Forums
This became really philosophic, but you sure are right. Social Media is the bane of communication.
Anyways, the potential way to remedy these issues are manifold. In VN/Eroge for example "restoration-patches" are not a rare thing. It is probably not big effort to download a show, remedy the changes and upload a new subtrack for everyone to download. Then you spread the word that people do download that new subtrack to use. It is much less effort than like retranslating a whole show and it would surprise me if that wasn't done already.
well yeah those things have always existed not only in things such as anime but also on videgames where people mod stuff to restore it to their uncensored form.
the thing is that if localizers did their job right those should not even be needed
The public makes them responsible for their individual failures. You may believe that localizers are not phased by having their work critiqued because they can keep up airs, but they sure do. Even more when they consider themselves "artists". No one likes it if a lot of people do not appreciate the product you have been satisfied with.
well yes the public does make them responsible, but everytime that public also gets disregarded and get called hateful by the individual who is being critizised or their colleagues, example how localizers talk about us on twitter.

now regarding the fact that they consider themselves "artists", they are not, they should understand their place and again get off their high horse and come back to earth.
 

NretsewThePerv

varishangout.com
Regular
I can feel your anger and respect you want to be respectful, but I repeat again that I just talk here as an individual and not on behalf of specific brand of localizers who probably would have recurring nightmares if I were to represent them. In a way I kinda hope that me showing up here encourages other localizers (and aspiring ones) to do so too so a discourse can be woven.

and that's fair. I dont think anyone here is expecting you to be a representative for everyone in your field. just as I only speak for myself you only speak for you

and I agree. i want these issues to just be resolved. and maybe one day they can. we can only hope
 

translation gundam

varishangout.com
Regular
wow one of these people showed up on the form, and is willing to have a respectful Dialogue with people on the forum.
wow I guess miracles do happen.
iu
 

HataVNI

varishangout.com
and that's fair. I dont think anyone here is expecting you to be a representative for everyone in your field. just as I only speak for myself you only speak for you

and I agree. i want these issues to just be resolved. and maybe one day they can. we can only hope
In a way I kind of believe that I'm not even taken seriously by the bulk of localizers because of A) my past behaviour and B) translating between easy languages such as English and German. If I want to be taken serious by them I have to learn Japanese well enough to be able to translate in a reasonable timeframe. That is smth I will definitely work on this year - among other things.
I'm going to sign out here now because I wanna play a VN and I'm surprised that going here led to more chill and productive talk than what I usually have with the "Japanese only players" crowd.

 

Migi

varishangout.com
Regular
wow one of these people showed up on the form, and is willing to have a respectful Dialogue with people on the forum.
wow I guess miracles do happen.
iu
That's because he's on the lower end of things. Most likely, those other translators don't see him on the same level they are. (I was right, just saw his new post)

You're going to be disappointed a bit, first half was more him excusing their behaviour, and now it slowed because it's at a stalemate.
But basically all so-called new information from this translator is old news, at least it was for me anyway.
 
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