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Happenings We can implement a Code of Ethics in the localization industry!

News and big events. It's happening boys

竜ヶ峰龍人

varishangout.com
Hey everyone! I'm Ryuugamine Ryuuto and this is my first post on Varis.
I'll be blunt, I created this account so I could share this petition I created targeting specifically the localization malpractices in the West for anime, manga and games coming from Japan.
Given the nature of this Forum, this being where I picked some examples to use in the petition page, I figured this would be the best place to acquire support


Essentially, this petition demands that Japanese companies implement a Code of Ethics or Guidelines for their partner companies outside of Japan.
Japanese executives are not aware of the damage poor localization can cause to their bottom line; they just trust that the localization teams will do their best to translate their products, unaware that what is happening is a butchery instead. And when we try to call out the BS by reaching out to the Japanese companies instead, as was the case with The House in Fata Morgana, results in the development teams simply stating they stand by the localization, likely out of ignorance over how unprofessional and damaging to their brand the butchering is on the long run. After all, it's just a couple of guys on the internet complaining a released product, what do they know, right?

(By the way, this was my response)
Well, this petition, "Introduce A Code of Ethics for Localization of Japanese Media・ローカライゼーションの倫理規定", exists exactly to make sure Japanese companies know just how pissed off we are that this keeps happening and that we will not stand by and just consume whatever crap we are fed! In the petition we demand that:

1. No alteration of names of characters, locations or others shall be done;
2. Removal of content, be it sexual, violent, thematic or otherwise can be done only if:
2.a. Specifically required by law, in which case the localizer is not at fault;
2.b. If implemented in a manner that the change can be undone by consumer choice, be it by the implementation of a toggle for the alteration to make the content more accessible to a wider audience without sacrificing the integrity of the product or the release of an “uncensored version” of the same product, at the exact same time and exact same price.
3. Dialogue changes may only occur in a manner that carries over the original intent, meaning:
3.a.Insertion of political terms such as “gamergate”, “mansplaining”, “social distancing” or similar where not present or hinted at in the original dialogue shall not be made;
3.b. Alterations done in order to accommodate limitations beyond the localizer’s control, such as lip syncing, character limit, number of dialogue boxes or similar limitations, are valid changes provided they stay as close to the original intent as possible;
3.c. Alterations or removals done in order to change the intent of the dialogue (i.e., Fire Emblems IF’s removal of the 26 boxes of dialogue in exchange for 4 boxes of “…” to signalize a conversation between ninjas) shall never be done. If the original dialogue was not made to have a comedic tone, the translation should preserve the non-comedic tone and vice-versa.
3.d. Overall, any practices that could be considered “Woosleyism” are forbidden.
6. Refusal to adhere to these guidelines shall face punishment, such as temporary suspension of activities in the localizer’s current project, complete removal of the faulty party from said project, or, in more severe cases, firing and/or blacklisting depending on the gravity and frequency of behaviour deemed inappropriate by these guidelines.

Among others. Please check the petition page for the whole list of demands.

The idea is to deliver the petition to Akamatsu Ken-sensei, creator of Love Hina and Mahou Sensei Negima!, elected as an official in the House of Councilors to fight against Western influences in Japanese media and protect free speech. If successful, this petition could help highlight that this isn't an issue of Japan VS the West, but rather Japan AND the West VS the likes of Black Rock and other ESG-conforming activists. This could be a very big step towards kicking ESG abiding activists from our hobbies in the long run (after all, all we want is to be left alone when we consume our escapist hobbies, right?)!

Please, sign this petition and help spread the word if you can. I know many people distrust Change.org, so do I, but it is the only venue we have at the moment, at least until we pick enough steam.
 

zoopydee

varishangout.com
Patron of the Forums
Signed but it's probably just coping until the machine gods come for the lulcowlizers by taking their jerbs.
 

YakuInTheFlesh

varishangout.com
Regular
I do value the effort, but petitions are usually useless and get ignored.
Imo the only way is "to make your own"™. But that is hard, since sony has practically a monopoly and would never work with a non-woke company.
Hate him or love him, but you need to practically pull a Musk and buy out Crunchyroll to make a real change.
 

YakuInTheFlesh

varishangout.com
Regular
I'm gonna be honest, expecting AI to just "take over" localization is a pretty big cope itself
I did see a few mentions, that jurnos are getting filtered by AI. Basically the Cs and Managers use AI to fact-check articles instead of rellying on the employees. I wouldn't ve surprised to see this coming within 3 years.
On a side note, I also saw my boss (whos not a programmer) use ChatGPT to write scripts we use in production.
 

localizersagainstthewall

varishangout.com
Regular
I did see a few mentions, that jurnos are getting filtered by AI. Basically the Cs and Managers use AI to fact-check articles instead of rellying on the employees. I wouldn't ve surprised to see this coming within 3 years.
On a side note, I also saw my boss (whos not a programmer) use ChatGPT to write scripts we use in production.
I mean, this is how I see it: AI is not gonna be able to take on Japanese all by itself.

If you truly mean you want it to completely get rid of localizers and do all of the work by itself, then you're gonna have a lot of confusing and just plain wrong translations. Is that really an improvement in terms of product quality? I guess the one good thing would be taking jobs away from evil people.

The other option is: they run the text through AI and let it do most of the work, but still have people there who oversee it and adjust translations accordingly. Guess who those people are gonna be - most likely the same localizers. They'll find ways to put in their usual bullshit while checking the translations.

In the end, there's only one way to avoid this bs.
 

YakuInTheFlesh

varishangout.com
Regular
I mean, this is how I see it: AI is not gonna be able to take on Japanese all by itself.

If you truly mean you want it to completely get rid of localizers and do all of the work by itself, then you're gonna have a lot of confusing and just plain wrong translations. Is that really an improvement in terms of product quality? I guess the one good thing would be taking jobs away from evil people.

The other option is: they run the text through AI and let it do most of the work, but still have people there who oversee it and adjust translations accordingly. Guess who those people are gonna be - most likely the same localizers. They'll find ways to put in their usual bullshit while checking the translations.

In the end, there's only one way to avoid this bs.
I mean yeah, AI will be just as good as Google Translate for actually doing the whole translation.
AI could be used to e.g. detect zoomer speak, memes, political talk, etc. and then send out tickets to check those translations for correction.
Use AI to filter out people with bad intentions rather than replacing / helping them. Soon after these people will either leave the industry or adjust. Either way is good.
Ofc heres a pro tip for any company wanting to translate their Game/Anime/ETC: Just hire fansubbers, since those are the people that are more likely to care about your product rather than their own agenda.
 

PhantomXero1x

varishangout.com
Regular
To be honest here, i don't think "fixing" it is going to work as its come to the point, that localization has become a waste of resources. And just do all translation in house as is.

I am not going to get in another arguemnet with fucking falcom fans over their gen-z shit wokelizations in the fucking trails games.
 

竜ヶ峰龍人

varishangout.com
To be honest here, i don't think "fixing" it is going to work as its come to the point, that localization has become a waste of resources. And just do all translation in house as is.
And it's precisely that "waste of resources" that needs to be highlighted.
Companies will go where they THINK the money is, and right now they think it lies with the likes of Black Rock.

If we can make them understand they're losing far more money than they could earn if they stopped this bullshit, we can solve the problem. Which is precisely why I made 2.b the way it is - it allows censorship practices to continue existing as long as we can have access to the uncensored version, then all that's left is for the free market to let the censored versions rot in the shelves while the uncensored version keeps selling.
 

sariel

varishangout.com
they're losing far more money than they could earn if they stopped this bullshit
I don’t want to sound like a killjoy, but is this really true? I mean, there are plenty of people who are pissed, but using a forum like this as a metric is kind of pointless considering that it’s an echo chamber when it comes to this subject. Also, considering the current culture of consumerism, it’s perfectly possible that it won’t even matter if it’s really unpopular if most people still buy it. Is there any verifiable and quantifiable evidence that anybody’s sales are being hurt in a way that matters? As far as I’m aware, even localization costs aren’t substantial.
 

Hexasheep93

varishangout.com
Regular
I want localization to die, not be "fixed".
I mean unless japanese companies decide they dont want to sell their products overseas thats not really feasable.

You guys might've thought i'm joking but i'm serious.
you wanna take out CR or Soyny, go beat 'em on the free market.
CR started out as a pirating service before going legit, whos to say it can't happen again...
Im all for it honestly.
You have to admit its a pretty ambitious idea though
 

salty_apollyon

varishangout.com
Regular
Patron of the Forums
Hey everyone! I'm Ryuugamine Ryuuto and this is my first post on Varis.
I'll be blunt, I created this account so I could share this petition I created targeting specifically the localization malpractices in the West for anime, manga and games coming from Japan.
Given the nature of this Forum, this being where I picked some examples to use in the petition page, I figured this would be the best place to acquire support


Essentially, this petition demands that Japanese companies implement a Code of Ethics or Guidelines for their partner companies outside of Japan.
Japanese executives are not aware of the damage poor localization can cause to their bottom line; they just trust that the localization teams will do their best to translate their products, unaware that what is happening is a butchery instead. And when we try to call out the BS by reaching out to the Japanese companies instead, as was the case with The House in Fata Morgana, results in the development teams simply stating they stand by the localization, likely out of ignorance over how unprofessional and damaging to their brand the butchering is on the long run. After all, it's just a couple of guys on the internet complaining a released product, what do they know, right?

(By the way, this was my response)
Well, this petition, "Introduce A Code of Ethics for Localization of Japanese Media・ローカライゼーションの倫理規定", exists exactly to make sure Japanese companies know just how pissed off we are that this keeps happening and that we will not stand by and just consume whatever crap we are fed! In the petition we demand that:

1. No alteration of names of characters, locations or others shall be done;
2. Removal of content, be it sexual, violent, thematic or otherwise can be done only if:
2.a. Specifically required by law, in which case the localizer is not at fault;
2.b. If implemented in a manner that the change can be undone by consumer choice, be it by the implementation of a toggle for the alteration to make the content more accessible to a wider audience without sacrificing the integrity of the product or the release of an “uncensored version” of the same product, at the exact same time and exact same price.
3. Dialogue changes may only occur in a manner that carries over the original intent, meaning:
3.a.Insertion of political terms such as “gamergate”, “mansplaining”, “social distancing” or similar where not present or hinted at in the original dialogue shall not be made;
3.b. Alterations done in order to accommodate limitations beyond the localizer’s control, such as lip syncing, character limit, number of dialogue boxes or similar limitations, are valid changes provided they stay as close to the original intent as possible;
3.c. Alterations or removals done in order to change the intent of the dialogue (i.e., Fire Emblems IF’s removal of the 26 boxes of dialogue in exchange for 4 boxes of “…” to signalize a conversation between ninjas) shall never be done. If the original dialogue was not made to have a comedic tone, the translation should preserve the non-comedic tone and vice-versa.
3.d. Overall, any practices that could be considered “Woosleyism” are forbidden.
6. Refusal to adhere to these guidelines shall face punishment, such as temporary suspension of activities in the localizer’s current project, complete removal of the faulty party from said project, or, in more severe cases, firing and/or blacklisting depending on the gravity and frequency of behaviour deemed inappropriate by these guidelines.

Among others. Please check the petition page for the whole list of demands.

The idea is to deliver the petition to Akamatsu Ken-sensei, creator of Love Hina and Mahou Sensei Negima!, elected as an official in the House of Councilors to fight against Western influences in Japanese media and protect free speech. If successful, this petition could help highlight that this isn't an issue of Japan VS the West, but rather Japan AND the West VS the likes of Black Rock and other ESG-conforming activists. This could be a very big step towards kicking ESG abiding activists from our hobbies in the long run (after all, all we want is to be left alone when we consume our escapist hobbies, right?)!

Please, sign this petition and help spread the word if you can. I know many people distrust Change.org, so do I, but it is the only venue we have at the moment, at least until we pick enough steam.
seems fine, i don't have much hopes but here's my sign anyway.

tho a minor nitpick would be that we don't want "localization" we rather prefer translations.

we want as much of the original culture to seep into the translated works instead of being changed for a "global culture"

does that make sense?

Get all the programmers, web designers, and JP speakers on Varis together and create Varisroll, then pray to God JP companies don't sue me into the netherworld for DMC violations
hey you know i was capable of learning how to program plcs in a few weeks and im currently unemployed

so if anyones got an idea i can offer some manpower if need be
 
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