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If you're here for vtubers, I highly recommend you go to The Virtual Asylum instead.
They'll love you there
JP_Loyalist
varishangout.com
Toddlercon is 100 percent out of limits. Lolis do not resemble kids or look like them at all. Toddlercon look like babies. With all do respect if you like toddlercon you are hiding some skeletons in the closet. I cannot imagine anyone here would endorse toddlercon. That is my personal view of it.
Lolicon is not drawn kids but toddlercon is without a doubt drawn babies. No alternative way to view that.
Lolicon is not drawn kids but toddlercon is without a doubt drawn babies. No alternative way to view that.
Toddlercon is a lot more niche and certainly even fewer people like it.. I myself dont like it at least not the anime version but some more stylized stuff is better.
All in all fiction is fiction I firmly believe that. As long as its not based on any real kid is fine.
If you start putting arbitrary limits on art just because of knee jerk reactions then you need to take a step back and look at things more objectively.
You dont have to like it but I dont think you should be making any generalizing statementes in that regard.
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All in all fiction is fiction I firmly believe that. As long as its not based on any real kid is fine.
If you start putting arbitrary limits on art just because of knee jerk reactions then you need to take a step back and look at things more objectively.
I feel thats a very broad and subjective way to view the issue. There are definetly some works that looks too real but the same could be said for lolicon specially with the rise of AI a lot of loli images are too real looking imo.
You dont have to like it but I dont think you should be making any generalizing statementes in that regard.
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Basically this:
Massive cope. Practically every definition of loli out there mentions "childlike" in some way.
Tuffin
varishangout.com
With all the respect, really gotta disagree with you here.
Look, I'm not judging you liking lolicon nor do I believe you are a pedo for liking the things you like, but you are massively coping if you genuinely believe that lolicon is any morally better than toddlercon and other, if you support the drawing that looks like a kid as artistic expression then why not support the drawing that looks like a baby as artistic expression? What makes you different from those that say lolicon is out of limits but consume media that condones violence? Support artistic expression or don't.
This is just a massive cope, sorry. Tho it is truth that there are lolis who do not necessarily look or act like children like that one woman from One Punch Man (even so she still does look 14) lots of lolis DO look like children or are canonly children. Just take the lolis in genshi impact for example, sure, they may be thousands years old, but their appearance and behavior are very similar to children. Most of them look like 5-7 year old. Not to mention the famous Kodomo Jikan, the girls there are canonly 10 years old and do look like 10 year old. Shiro in NGNL is canonly 11 years old and does look like 11 years old, fuck, she even wears a school uniform. Not only on famous pieces, just search "loli" in any hentai site that you will see plenty of them that look like 5-8 years old, even the ones who do not look like children do look like pre-teens. There's a huge difference between a character who has a petite body type and a character who straight up looks like a kid or pre-teen.
Look, I'm not judging you liking lolicon nor do I believe you are a pedo for liking the things you like, but you are massively coping if you genuinely believe that lolicon is any morally better than toddlercon and other, if you support the drawing that looks like a kid as artistic expression then why not support the drawing that looks like a baby as artistic expression? What makes you different from those that say lolicon is out of limits but consume media that condones violence? Support artistic expression or don't.
I dont know the issue is a lot more complicated than they look like children/babies or not.
There are degrees of similarities and differences from very much photorealisitc to hyper cartoony also it should be noted that the canon age of characters is a non issue. Theyre drawings they have no age.
So if you are creating a work with a character with a canon age you can easiliy choose to ignore it if you wish.
And this is without going into the historical origins of lolicon (there is a thread about it here, is very good but a long read)
Personally I see it this way. Is the drawing a child? No of course not. Does the drawing look like a child? Some do others not so much. I feel this goes back to the discourse around what is and is not a loli
I personally do not care as long as you can separate reality from fiction then you can interpret any character any way you want.
In the end fiction is meant to explore ideas and concepts some light some dark thats why people make stories.they (ussually) do not reflect anything about a person other than they like this type of fiction.
All that said if anyone reading this is actually a pedophile. Then this does not support any warped delussions you may have nor does it justify any abuse towards children. The best thing you can do is seek professional help and stay away from kids.
There are degrees of similarities and differences from very much photorealisitc to hyper cartoony also it should be noted that the canon age of characters is a non issue. Theyre drawings they have no age.
So if you are creating a work with a character with a canon age you can easiliy choose to ignore it if you wish.
And this is without going into the historical origins of lolicon (there is a thread about it here, is very good but a long read)
Personally I see it this way. Is the drawing a child? No of course not. Does the drawing look like a child? Some do others not so much. I feel this goes back to the discourse around what is and is not a loli
I personally do not care as long as you can separate reality from fiction then you can interpret any character any way you want.
In the end fiction is meant to explore ideas and concepts some light some dark thats why people make stories.they (ussually) do not reflect anything about a person other than they like this type of fiction.
All that said if anyone reading this is actually a pedophile. Then this does not support any warped delussions you may have nor does it justify any abuse towards children. The best thing you can do is seek professional help and stay away from kids.
Tuffin
varishangout.com
I agree with everything you said, it's just that I hate how lolicons are all for freedom of expression when it comes to lolicon, but hate on toddlercon with the exact same arguments anti-lolis use. And I really agree with your take on fiction, that's why I love it. You can explore every single type of concept.
JP_Loyalist
varishangout.com
I will quickly explain instead of replying multiple times. So this is how I see it.
When you look at lolis right you don't think "ohh wow sexy anime child" you think "sexy petite cunny" or something along those lines correct? You are not thinking of it being a child.
With toddlercon correct me if I am wrong but there is no alterantive way to view it. They are just babies.
With lolicon you are not getting off to the thought of a child but to a petite waifu.
With toddlercon you are getting off to a baby, once again correct me if I am wrong but I struggle to see.
Lolicon can argue we do not see them as kids which is true as almost all Lolis look similar enough to petite women that it is not weird.
For toddlercon though what is the pleasurable factor? If anyone here enjoys toddlercon please let me know because I think most loli enjoyers struggle to see the appeal in toddlercon based on how we view lolicon.
Also on a quick note, someone said tatsumaki looks 14 in this thread. That is actually blatantly cap. She easily looks like a short adult. No idea what 14 year olds they have seen but tatsumaki does not look like a kid.
At the end of the day though this convo will go nowhere because I do not see a reality where I am persuaded that toddlercon is fine. Enjoy what you enjoy just don't send me that shit.
When you look at lolis right you don't think "ohh wow sexy anime child" you think "sexy petite cunny" or something along those lines correct? You are not thinking of it being a child.
With toddlercon correct me if I am wrong but there is no alterantive way to view it. They are just babies.
With lolicon you are not getting off to the thought of a child but to a petite waifu.
With toddlercon you are getting off to a baby, once again correct me if I am wrong but I struggle to see.
Lolicon can argue we do not see them as kids which is true as almost all Lolis look similar enough to petite women that it is not weird.
For toddlercon though what is the pleasurable factor? If anyone here enjoys toddlercon please let me know because I think most loli enjoyers struggle to see the appeal in toddlercon based on how we view lolicon.
Also on a quick note, someone said tatsumaki looks 14 in this thread. That is actually blatantly cap. She easily looks like a short adult. No idea what 14 year olds they have seen but tatsumaki does not look like a kid.
At the end of the day though this convo will go nowhere because I do not see a reality where I am persuaded that toddlercon is fine. Enjoy what you enjoy just don't send me that shit.
I think you are misunderstanding something. It doesn't matter how realistic it is, it only matters if it causes actual harm. As long as it stays in the realm of fiction and doesn't cause any harm to a real child then even photorealistic CG is fine.I will quickly explain instead of replying multiple times. So this is how I see it.
When you look at lolis right you don't think "ohh wow sexy anime child" you think "sexy petite cunny" or something along those lines correct? You are not thinking of it being a child.
With toddlercon correct me if I am wrong but there is no alterantive way to view it. They are just babies.
With lolicon you are not getting off to the thought of a child but to a petite waifu.
With toddlercon you are getting off to a baby, once again correct me if I am wrong but I struggle to see.
Lolicon can argue we do not see them as kids which is true as almost all Lolis look similar enough to petite women that it is not weird.
For toddlercon though what is the pleasurable factor? If anyone here enjoys toddlercon please let me know because I think most loli enjoyers struggle to see the appeal in toddlercon based on how we view lolicon.
Also on a quick note, someone said tatsumaki looks 14 in this thread. That is actually blatantly cap. She easily looks like a short adult. No idea what 14 year olds they have seen but tatsumaki does not look like a kid.
At the end of the day though this convo will go nowhere because I do not see a reality where I am persuaded that toddlercon is fine. Enjoy what you enjoy just don't send me that shit.
JP_Loyalist
varishangout.com
Different moral compass I suppose?
If it actually resembles a kid I cannot justify anyone looking at it, photorealistic stuff is very much a warning sign. Photorealistic stuff 100 percent should not be normalized. We can both have differing views though it is no problem.
I will myself always see photorealistic and toddlercon as fictional kids. Not petite characters. So I personally will always find it vile.
Do as you want obivously just don't send it my way because I want nothing to do with it.
This will 100 percent turn into a long winded debate that can easily be avoided so I will chose to avoid it.
My end point is: AS long as it does not look like a human child then I do not care.
I don't care. I don't look for it. I have about zero clue what goes on in the brains of toddlercons, and I'm not even sure if there exists research of it relating to anything.
It's fiction as far as I care, and I have no inclination on judging you if you like it or not.
Do what you want.
Women develop quicker than boys and generally finish physically developing (height/bust) around the age of 15. It's why people like Cody Wilson wind up as sex offenders; they think with their eyeballs and penis rather than use their brain. This should be common knowledge. Did you confuse your own development into an adult man with your female peers?Also on a quick note, someone said tatsumaki looks 14 in this thread. That is actually blatantly cap. She easily looks like a short adult. No idea what 14year olds they have seen but tatsumaki does not look like a kid.
I know with new dog owners, some mistakenly believe girl dogs are more mature than boy dogs cause they adopt both a girl puppy and boy puppy from the same litter. The girl puppy reaches the age where you can properly house train her earlier than the boy puppy, giving the impression the boy puppy is being obstinate or unruly, but if you give the boy puppy enough time, you can also train them to be as well-behaved as the girl puppy.
I don't really understand the OP question in terms of the western fandom. Is Johnko toddlercon to westerners?
Johnko is labelled as a completely legal loli vtuber; he roleplays as a Youjo foxgirl with his male friend, who he does loli talk podcasts with, and some lady who pretends to be Johnko's Onee-chan. I think Johnko is simply cute; if someone drew a Johnko ero-doujin, I wouldn't purchase it and would be surprised if there's a market for such a thing.
As far as things being off limits, I do not trust sociopathic and developmentally retarded individuals. For example, Null from Kiwi Farms was trying to grandstand by saying he doesn't want his reputation tarnished by associating with Dick Masterson's podcast because of an individual called Digibro over Lolicon. Null believes Digibro, and his girlfriend, are destined to molest a child, and then lo and behold, Null's low-functioning autistic pet, Chris-chan, rapes his mother. Thank heavens there wasn't a child trapped in the same house as Chris-chan, he would've done something equally inappropriate to the child as well.
If the OP can maintain some semblance of intelligence and function as a productive member of society instead of a parasite, then I don't care if he has an unfortunate flavour of cartoon fetish. However, I believe potential parents should be more mindful about the environment and media their children consume, since they're largely responsible for whether their son grows up wanting to write erotic fanfiction involving Miss Piggy from Muppet Babies.
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More like the only way to have a consistent moral compass without double standards. It's just the logical conclusion of being against victimless crimes and being for free speech. When you start picking and choosing which kind of fiction is "moral" then you open the door to policing all speech.
JP_Loyalist
varishangout.com
I suppose yeah. Found it strange how OP was having his view shut down and kept searching around until he found someone who agrees though. Reminds me of anti vax people who will dig for that ONE article that kind of indirectly says vaccines cause autism, and will clutch to it ignoring everything else.
Not trying to say anything specific just gave off that vibe.
I think that generally speaking we should not support photo realistic stuff because of the fact is is almost always going to be used by pedos.
At least with drawings we can make the argument that they do not resemble real people in terms of proportions and eye size etc.
With photo realistic that argument goes out the window. So as long as what you are looking at is not photo realistic/ai made/based off a real child, then go for it. Be wary of photo realistic stuff, even if you are not a pedo, the law in most places cracks down heavily on 3dcg stuff. Just stick to drawings instead of 3d.
Just going to avoid looking at this specific thread as it would appear my view on the matter differs and avoiding conflict is the best thing to do when it comes to this sort of thing. Leave it to twitter antis to ramble abt this stuff.
I agree, but I don't see why I should care about what fictional content pedophiles get off to.
OwntheLoner
varishangout.com
As long as it's stylized and not realistic idc if someone watches it as long as they keep it far away from me.
toddlercon is off limits FOR ME. I do not give a shit if you enjoy it, I'm not judging you unless I see you holding a baby in a weird way.
On a similar matter, legal or illegal as long as you don't make it my problem I don't care so if you're enjoying something illegal don't tell me I don't want to know.
On a similar matter, legal or illegal as long as you don't make it my problem I don't care so if you're enjoying something illegal don't tell me I don't want to know.
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As for me. I don't seek it out myself, but my stance usually is:
Does it actually hurt anybody? If no then I don't care if people like it. Hell, even if pedo's consume and seek this out! I'm more of the opinion that I'd rather have them use fictional material than seeking out the real deal.
But yeah I think realistic depictions are getting borderline and using real children as reference is a no go. It doesn't matter how stylized it is. When the artist comes out and says smth like "Oh yeah this work is based on my 5 year old nice" then I think it isn't ok.
Does it actually hurt anybody? If no then I don't care if people like it. Hell, even if pedo's consume and seek this out! I'm more of the opinion that I'd rather have them use fictional material than seeking out the real deal.
But yeah I think realistic depictions are getting borderline and using real children as reference is a no go. It doesn't matter how stylized it is. When the artist comes out and says smth like "Oh yeah this work is based on my 5 year old nice" then I think it isn't ok.
lewdthewides
varishangout.com
I don't care, but don't expect me to defend you