Happenings Kiwifarms in Meltdown Mode After Null Has a Sperg Out Over not Understanding Vtubers

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LordReagent101

varishangout.com
I know 9chan was a disaster but I wasn't interested on it so I didn't pay too much attention, exactly what part of it caused him to start hating anime/lolis?
Everyone else already answered before I did and their pretty much on the money though I'd like to add that Null has this really weird thing going on where it feels like he likes the idea of imageboards and was even involved at one point in trying to fix one back in the day Infinitychan(though that was a total disaster too), but it's like he has some fundamental misunderstanding about imageboard users that constantly makes him miscalculate on how he interacts with them. 9chan even without the CP spammers was always going to fall apart and it was largely due to the fact that Null seem to put zero thought into establishing the site. He barely advertised it on the Farms, he had no clue where the 8chan remnants went(he had never even heard of the webring that was established the moment people knew the site was going to go down). For a good while, Null was like the only moderator which meant that every time he went to bed, the catalog would get shit up with illegal crap, then you had the anti-loli rule which really pissed a lot of people off. Then there was the competition of the webring, why would anyone use Null's imageboard when people already had new homes they had migrated too? Null had nothing to offer imageboard users in 9chan that they didn't already have.

There was no thought put into it's establishment whatsoever and Null very quickly found himself overwhelmed with the stress of running 9chan filled with people who already didn't like him because of his failure with Infinitychan. It's like Null thought that running 9chan would be like running Kiwi Farms but not understanding that both cultures are fundamentally different and what imageboards users like in their site is very different from what Kiwi Farms people like in theirs. In any case, his pretty much long since given up on 9chan and more or less burned whatever last bridge he had with the imageboard communities.
 
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RikkaNoodles

varishangout.com
Patron of the Forums
this is why I call any and all "free speech alternatives" scams and grifts until I see them take hardline stances to truly protect things like loli and other forms of porn people find gross and icky.
Sadly, that really isn't as easy as it sounds. Loli and other forms of weird porn is either in a gray area or outright illegal in most of the world and you will always risk losing a market by allowing it, especially if you're something up and coming, because big companies don't want any competition and will remove you in any way they can.

There's also the fact that most investors won't go anywhere near a site that allows "bad" porn because of the potential legal implications surrounding it, remember, even in the US, people have been charged for possessing porn of cartoons.

Of course it doesn't help either that total free speech is mostly a right-wing position and a lot of those people are against porn because "degeneracy" or some other stupid shit.
 

Halo

varishangout.com
Regular
his pretty much long since given up on 9chan and more or less burned whatever last bridge he had with the imageboard communities.
I stopped following 9chan past the loli/cp spammers, but didn't he sell/give-away the site?
at one point in trying to fix one back in the day Infinitychan(though that was a total disaster too)
What happened with that?
maybe I should just make this a general Null/Josh thread :zt-think:

Sadly, that really isn't as easy as it sounds. Loli and other forms of weird porn is either in a gray area or outright illegal in most of the world and you will always risk losing a market by allowing it
That's true, you'll never get a big audience by allowing loli, especially on a small start-up site like Minds where it'll be far more prominent compared to twitter where its easily hidden in the background cause of just how big the site is.
Of course it doesn't help either that total free speech is mostly a right-wing position and a lot of those people are against porn because "degeneracy" or some other stupid shit.
Total free speech is more of a talking point than anything. Right-Wingers/altright (if I've learned anything from the pleroma :hinata-acid:) just want to hear their own voices. I honestly doubt any of them could give a damn about "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
 

Grönsak

varishangout.com
I stopped following 9chan past the loli/cp spammers, but didn't he sell/give-away the site?

What happened with that?
maybe I should just make this a general Null/Josh thread :zt-think:


That's true, you'll never get a big audience by allowing loli, especially on a small start-up site like Minds where it'll be far more prominent compared to twitter where its easily hidden in the background cause of just how big the site is.

Total free speech is more of a talking point than anything. Right-Wingers/altright (if I've learned anything from the pleroma :hinata-acid:) just want to hear their own voices. I honestly doubt any of them could give a damn about "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
Definitely. It's not hard to defend what you agree with. The hard part is defending your opponent's right to speak. Ironically even the ones that want to cancel you.
 

LordReagent101

varishangout.com
I stopped following 9chan past the loli/cp spammers, but didn't he sell/give-away the site?

What happened with that?
maybe I should just make this a general Null/Josh thread :zt-think:
With the former, I'm pretty certain he just gave the site away. 9chan still exist, but its basically a ghost town. The Infinity Chan shit is where my memory starts to falter a bit since this was quite a while ago, but I'll try to to give as much as I can remember. To give some context, Infinity Chan(or Infinity Next) was a project that 8chan's owner Hot Wheels had wanted to work on since 8chan's site infrastructure was total shit behind the scenes. So in an attempt to preserve the site in the long term, he made a new imageboard site that was intended to be an improved version of 8chan with Null being the main dude who was working on it. This is where things kinda get fuzzy for me because I'm not familiar with the techno jargon behind it but there was a lot of fucking complications with Infinity Chan's development where tons of money(user donated mind you) was being wasted but there was next to no actual progress on the site. It was a huge mess and a lot of people(particularly those who used the tech boards like /g/) claimed that Null was a total retard who had no idea what he was doing. When Null eventually spoke about it on stream, I dont remember his exact words but he laid a huge chunk of the blame on Hot Wheels for reasons I dont remember.

I might be getting some things on this wrong so if someone here remembers this better than I do, then feel free to correct me. Needless to say, in my eyes its become a he said, she said situation. I'm inclined to believe that both parties in Hot Wheels and Null both had apart to play in how Infinity Chan development got as fucked as it did. I don't think Null should had been hired for the job and that Hot Wheels should have just gotten some /g/ anons to do it. Many of them were quite literally begging him for the job and said they would have done it for free to ensure the site's continued survival.
 

Fennec_fox

varishangout.com
Regular
A good rule for any new sites. Like I said at the end of the day they're companies and are gonna bend over to get that money.
Anyone who expects a company to be looking out for their best interests, is optimistic at best, borderline retarded at worst.
Yeah, pretty much. They don't give a shit about free-speech or let alone what could benefit artists lol. The reality is that they smell potential money. Though there is one good thing about them: they are a good containment zones for these groups (boomers, religious people, puritans, conservatives, you name it). Now, if we only had the same thing for tmbler refugees where they can Reeeeeeee at each other.
 

Grönsak

varishangout.com
Yeah, pretty much. They don't give a shit about free-speech or let alone what could benefit artists lol. The reality is that they smell potential money. Though there is one good thing about them: they are a good containment zones for these groups (boomers, religious people, puritans, conservatives, you name it). Now, if we only had the same thing for tmbler refugees where they can Reeeeeeee at each other.
We need a waste bucket to put them in.
 

Koutoriia

varishangout.com
Now, if we only had the same thing for tmbler refugees where they can Reeeeeeee at each other.
Mastodon seems to be the hip and cool thing for that for some of them, as well as Twitter and Discord which already had a significant portion of diluted Tumblr ways anyways.
 

Hibiki

varishangout.com
Regular
Mastodon seems to be the hip and cool thing for that for some of them, as well as Twitter and Discord which already had a significant portion of diluted Tumblr ways anyways.
It's weird we didn't run into any of them yet in our pleroma instance (with the exception of that feminist)
 

Halo

varishangout.com
Regular
It's weird we didn't run into any of them yet in our pleroma instance (with the exception of that feminist)
no theres a bunch of them we've ran into. Just no one responds to them, and poast is very loud.
 

NretsewThePerv

varishangout.com
Regular
Sadly, that really isn't as easy as it sounds. Loli and other forms of weird porn is either in a gray area or outright illegal in most of the world and you will always risk losing a market by allowing it, especially if you're something up and coming, because big companies don't want any competition and will remove you in any way they can.

There's also the fact that most investors won't go anywhere near a site that allows "bad" porn because of the potential legal implications surrounding it, remember, even in the US, people have been charged for possessing porn of cartoons.

Of course it doesn't help either that total free speech is mostly a right-wing position and a lot of those people are against porn because "degeneracy" or some other stupid shit.

I think my issue is less the fact they ban these things and more the fact they don't at the start and try to use that fact as part of their advertising

like shit look at minds again. they have a sperg out about loli in 2016 after allowing it until then. then after shit died down stopped giving a shit apparently for 4 years allowing people to post their cunny again. and then NOW has gone back to the same stances as 2016 even using the VERY same shitty US law legal arguments

gab also allowed porn until one-day Toba suddenly flipped a switch and went full-on trad mode

if you are gonna have rules. have them from the start. don't try and bring EVERYONE in if you know for a fact you don't really want everyone. if you don't want loli or porn or whatever on your site cool more power to you just don't be a cunt about it and be upfront on it so I know to avoid your site. don't advertise your self as "pro free speech" when all that really means to you is "pro-free speech that agrees with me"
 

SuRge

varishangout.com
Artist
Yeah, pretty much. They don't give a shit about free-speech or let alone what could benefit artists lol. The reality is that they smell potential money. Though there is one good thing about them: they are a good containment zones for these groups (boomers, religious people, puritans, conservatives, you name it). Now, if we only had the same thing for tmbler refugees where they can Reeeeeeee at each other.
Yeah, it's called Twitter.

I think my issue is less the fact they ban these things and more the fact they don't at the start and try to use that fact as part of their advertising

like shit look at minds again. they have a sperg out about loli in 2016 after allowing it until then. then after shit died down stopped giving a shit apparently for 4 years allowing people to post their cunny again. and then NOW has gone back to the same stances as 2016 even using the VERY same shitty US law legal arguments

gab also allowed porn until one-day Toba suddenly flipped a switch and went full-on trad mode

if you are gonna have rules. have them from the start. don't try and bring EVERYONE in if you know for a fact you don't really want everyone. if you don't want loli or porn or whatever on your site cool more power to you just don't be a cunt about it and be upfront on it so I know to avoid your site. don't advertise your self as "pro free speech" when all that really means to you is "pro-free speech that agrees with me"

The bigger a website becomes, the more normie it leans towards. Again. This is why I have zero trust in anything that wants to amass "widespread adoption" because it'll inevitably succumb to the same old shit that watered down everything and got the niche shit banned. Minds and Gab taking the moralfag position is purely risk-benefit analysis. Having lolis and porn endanger their only shot at expanding their service, which is attracting disgruntled conservatives. Those guys aren't exactly known for supporting lolis.

It's best to just have few thousand users that share the same ideas and tastes than be in a pool of millions but have to tread on eggshells so you don't get banned.
 

Fennec_fox

varishangout.com
Regular
It's best to just have few thousand users that share the same ideas and tastes than be in a pool of millions but have to tread on eggshells so you don't get banned.
Agree 100%. Better have a niche community/group rather than "muh global audience". The bigger the community, the more vague and normie it becomes (and more restrictions will come as well).
Funnily enough, it can be applied to many other things other than just alt-tech platforms. Just look at American mainstream comics and how dogshit they are to what indies have to go through to make sure their product will be successful and liked by their fans.
 

Jahy

varishangout.com
I know I'm a bit late to the discussion, but if not for what happened here, I likely would not have found out about and subsequently joined this forum.

This whole situation was an absolute mess. I know that Null has never exactly established the farms as a free speech paradise, but he's gotten pretty close in terms of the sort of content he allows there, and something as inherently harmless as v-tubing should never have fallen between his crosshairs. Some of his worst characteristics were made bare in his handling of this situation, and his vendetta against anime and anything anime-adjacent is just embarrassing and childish.

It's really interesting to me that Carol the cause of this considering she herself is prime lolcow material and would be perfect to discuss and ridicule, since at best she plays a very dark character for shock value and at worst she really thinks what she says and is a mentally ill individual. Where Null got the impression that she was representative of all v-tubing content is beyond me and again mostly calls back to his inability to come to terms with his past and also accept things he doesn't like or understand.

But what bothers me the most about the situation is not so much Null's ignorance but the fact that many well-intentioned and well-reasoned users came out to speak against the decision with facts and logic, yet he chose to ignore literally everyone. I have no idea what that one use must have said to finally quell his rage, but it's amazing it even worked since he was so close to going nuclear. This could and may very well have turned really ugly, but cooler minds did prevail in the end. Only just.

It's unsurprising that literally nothing has changed in the thread since this event besides the edits the local janny made to the original post. Nothing had to change. The thread is probably one of the most harmless and less controversial environments on the site. I will never understand why this drive-by was necessary.
 

Rye

varishangout.com
that's the problem with a lot of the people against "loli" and loli adjacent stuff, they can't seem to distinguish what's real and what's fantasy/fiction.
 

Jahy

varishangout.com
It wasn't the first time Kiwifarm sperging over loli and won't be the last. It amazes me how they have trouble over distinguishing between fiction and reality.
that's the problem with a lot of the people against "loli" and loli adjacent stuff, they can't seem to distinguish what's real and what's fantasy/fiction.
I have commonly equated these sorts of arguments by those against lolicon as being no different than the illogical and disproven boomer argument about how video games cause violence. Both sides share an antagonistic opposition that is either grossly out-of-touch or maliciously aligned with alternative motives. The overwhelming majority of those speaking out have never and would never consume the content they're demonizing, so there's no way they would understand the specifics. It's convenient ignorance for them.
 

Rye

varishangout.com
The overwhelming majority of those speaking out have never and would never consume the content they're demonizing, so there's no way they would understand the specifics. It's convenient ignorance for them.
that's the issue at hand. None of these clowns sit and talk down with the people consuming said content to see if it changes anything in their brains to make them more likely to do X activity that they claim that consuming the content does, and its just a full circle of ignorant pissants trying to ban or vilify something they don't understand.
 
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