Thank you again for your contribution. Quite interested in reading this (I will edit my post once im done).
Is pretty cool that some of the OGs are still active and talking to people.
Now as for your ending question, I dont know how feasible is to get. But is there anything from a newer artist pov? Like what do they think of the origin o lolicon and the lolicon boom.
Alternatively. Does kera or any older artist think of the current state of affairs regarding lolicon, shoujo or manga in general.
Thank you again for your contributions and merry christmas
So you haven't finished reading it yet?
Kera is a 25 year-old artist (
image of Hirukogami Ken Kera drew on the JP wikipedia); he likes an anime called 'Bocchi the Rock' (ぼっち・ざ・ろっく!), which—based on his enthusiastic description—seems to be his generation's epochal anime (
example of an illustration Kera likes).
Earlier in the thread, I linked a video interview with Uchiyama Aki and Ai Madonna (
Ai Madonna's Homepage), who is also a young artist that grew up a fan of Uchiyama's art, but had no idea about the man behind the art (Ai was convinced Uchiyama was a woman for most of her life; she didn't believe a man was capable of drawing the way he does). Though Ai is a little older than I am (she was born in 1984). I don't know if she fits your request for a 'newer artist pov', but as far as artists of Kera's generation are concerned, you can easily find their perspective by searching for 'ロリコンブーム' (Lolicon Boom) wherever these sorts of people hang out.
Kera's research into the true origins of Lolicon beyond Comiket has caused a so-called 'Lolicon Boom Incident' the last couple years. He's been targeted by Netouyo (ネトウヨ; internet right-wing), anti-feminists, and certain middle-aged Otaku who aren't old enough to have been alive to attend the early days of Comiket, but old enough to be victims of the 1990s and early 2000s Otaku-bashing periods, making them hyper-sensitive to anything critical to their hobbies, regardless of whether it's true. I don't know if Kera is being harassed by just individuals being labelled these words, or if it's being applied to whole communities the size of 4chan. The only one of these individuals with a name is some guy 30 years older than Kera called '
Qadhafi' (カダフィ) who is part of some
Qadhafi Project (カダフィ企画), but I don't understand the details surrounding this other than people like
Qadhafi are what inspired Kera to do such thorough work to fight people like him with research from primary sources.
As for older artists, the upcoming interview with Azuma Hideo should help with that, since it was done around 2011. Though, something not included in the interview was an anecdote I heard long ago about an old school Lolicon artist commenting on modern day Moe, criticising it for being devoid of anything interesting beyond basic fetish pandering. Though, I recently found out that was paraphrasing something Azuma Hideo said about K-On (けいおん).
吾妻ひでお said:
録画してあったTBSアニメの「けいおん!」観る。空虚だ。
ギャグもナンセンスもユーモアもエログロもストーリーらしきものも何もない。
ちょっとしたフェティシズムがあるだけ。
このアニメ作ってる人も見てる人々もそんなに現実イヤなのか?
この気持ち悪さはメイドカフェにも通じるものがあるな。
原作のかきふらい『けいおん1』読んでみたらまァまァのほほえましいほのぼの4コマ漫画だ。
原作生かせよ!
Azuma Hideo: "I watched the TBS anime 'K-On!' I had recorded. It was empty. There were no gags, no nonsense, no humour, no ero-guro, nothing akin to a story. All it had was a tad bit of fetishism. Do both the creators and viewers of this anime dislike reality that much? This gross feeling has something in common with maid cafés as well. When I read the original 'K-On Vol.1' by Kakifly, it was a heart-warming yonkoma manga that made me smile. Let the original live!"
I thought you meant shoujo manga, but by shoujo, do you mean the photograph stuff?
Regardless, while it's early, I hope you have a Merry Christmas; I'll be posting the Azuma Hideo stuff in quick succession. The first one is advertised as a 25k interview. The second one is a shorter talk between Azuma Hideo and Yamamoto Naoki, and the final part is a history lesson about the 'Father of Otaku Culture'.
I borrowed a smartphone so I could take photographs of the figures, but things like the photographs I left out. The quality is such that someone will have to debind this book and scan it properly.
Source:『吾妻ひでお〈総特集〉美少女・SF・不条理ギャグ、そして失踪』 2011/4/18
Modern Japanese Aesthetics
The Creator of 'Kawaii Ero'
Made his debut in 1969. Surviving the harsh weekly magazine era. Had nonsense parody and SF coexist together in 'Absurd Diary' (不条理日記). Combined Tezuka/Ishinomori-style bodies with the faces of shoujo manga, creating and popularising 'kawaii-ero', the essence of Japanese aesthetics that's now drawing the world's attention. He resurrects from a long hiatus, presenting 'Disappearance Diary' (失踪日記), a serious autobiography drawn with gag art. Azuma Hideo creates the unexpected by combining things. A long interview that explores his roots.
Interviewer:
Yamada Tomoko (ヤマダトモコ)
Attendees:
Saiko (S) (彩古): Veteran Azuma Fan. Knowledgeable about SF and Comic Market.
Morikawa Kaichirou (M) (森川嘉一郎): Associate Professor at Meiji University. Otaku Researcher (Wiki).
Photographs:
Abe Takayuki (阿部高之) (Wix)
——Today, while referring to Sensei's chronology (※Refer to Right), I would like to ask questions, exploring the finest of details. I'm looking forward to speaking with you.
Azuma: Yes. Likewise.
Hokkaido Has Many Mangaka with a Spirit of Experimentation
——You're from Hokkaido, correct? What kind of environment did you grow up in?
Azuma: It was a small village surrounded by mountains on all sides. So, the bus only came over those mountains twice a day, once in the morning and again in the evening. It took about 2 hours for it to reach a town called Urahoro. It was a very small world. It had one schoolhouse from elementary schoolers to middle schoolers, but there were less than a hundred students in the entire school.
M: Did you raise any animals?
Azuma: I suppose we raised rabbits or dogs. There were many farmers nearby, but there were also people raising livestock. So, I'm used to seeing horses, cows, and so on. In the winter, there were horse-sleighs. The horse-sleighs were sleighs pulled by horses. We went to school on them.
——Do they give rides to all the children in the neighbourhood?
Azuma: Yeah, we took turns riding them.
——Then there must've been bells on the horse-sleighs.
Azuma: Yep (laughs). Hokkaido horses have a different physique.
——Horses native to Hokkaido (道産子). Their legs are thick and robust, huh?
Azuma: Yes, yes. Ban'ei horse-racing is a holdover from those old horse-sleighs. A holdover from back when they used to load and pull lumber.
M: Do you have any common sensibilities you share with Mangaka-sans from Hokkaido?
Azuma: Yeah. I notice there's a lot of people overflowing with an experimental spirit, probably cause they're from an isolated place. People like Yokoyama Eiji-san (横山えいじ), who draws a lot of SF illustrations, and people like Karasawa Naoki-san (唐沢なをき).
Yokoyama Eiji (Wiki)
Karasawa Naoki (Wiki)
——The same goes for Asari Yoshitoo-san (あさりよしとお) and Yamamoto Naoki-san (山本直樹).
Asari Yoshitoo (Wiki)
Yamamoto Naoki (Wiki)
Azuma: Also, I guess it goes for Yasuhiko Yoshikazu-san (安彦良和). You see, there's many ranks of remote rural areas. Remote rural areas go from rank 1 to rank 4, but mine's around rank 2, so you see, it's much nicer. Yasuhiko-san is probably around rank 4. Since his was rank 4, there's hardly anyone around him.
Yasuhiko Yoshikazu (Wiki)
——In Yasuhiko-san's case, he grew up surrounded by horses from an early age, so he seems able to draw pictures without looking at anything. Though I feel like Sensei's manga doesn't reflect the environment from when you were little.
Azuma: I don't want to remember it (laughs).
——You don't really like your home?
Azuma: Yeah.
——Was your Otou-san strict?
Azuma: He had a gun.
——Ehh, sounds scary.
Azuma: Often when he had a marital quarrel, he would whip out his gun (laughs).
——Hmm. That's certainly unsettling.
Azuma: My old man, err, got married about 4 times. So my Okaa-san is e'er changing.
——Did your Okaa-san change when you were little?
Azuma: When I was around 5 years old.
——So the first change was when you were around 5 years old.
Azuma: After that, she changed after I left home when I was around 25 years old. I only had a biological mother until 5 years old.
——Does that mean the other one was before that?
Azuma: Yeah. Though I don't really know much.
——Does that have any relation to why you don't like your home very much?
Azuma: Umm, after all, they say children are also very reserved when it comes to step-mothers.
S: I heard you say earlier you had six brothers and sisters. What's their composition?
Azuma: The boys...... 4. And 2 girls.
——Did everyone live together?
Azuma: My older brother left home, so there was also a time when I lived with 4 people, my next oldest brother and older sister. My younger sister was taken when my birth mother left home, so after that, I was mostly alone with my younger brother. So my birth mother divorced my father, got remarried, and gave birth to more children. Apparently, I have a lot of siblings I don't know about (it's complicated, so omitted).
——What was your younger brother like?
Azuma: My younger brother, he's kinda addle-minded (laughs).
——Was your relationship good?
Azuma: ...... Well, I suppose it was good?
——Was there anything you experienced when you were little you feel influenced your current artistic character or work?
Azuma: I watched 'Mystery Zone' (ミステリーゾーン; The Twilight Zone) and 'Ultra Q' (ウルトラQ)...... I read manga...... The manga I liked was 'Tetsujin 28-Gou' (鉄人28号) (Yokoyama Mitsuteru [横山光輝]). I suppose you could say I developed a habit of escaping into imaginary worlds.
Yokoyama Mitsuteru (Wiki)
——So you developed the joy of entering imaginary worlds due to your environment, huh?
Azuma: Yeah, right. So on my way to and from school, I've always daydreamed about controlling a dinosaur-type robot from 'Tetsujin'.
M: What about sports?
Azuma: I sucked at sports. But now I'm a big martial arts fan (laughs). On the flip-side. When I was an elementary schooler, I was always sick.
——Was your body weak?
Azuma: Around the time I was in the lower grades of elementary school, I developed a duodenal ulcer. Afterwards, I tended to miss school.
M: So that allowed you to draw lots of pictures and stuff.
Azuma: Back in middle school, I didn't draw very much. If anything, I wasn't good at it. There were many other kids who were good at manga.
——Do you remember the very first manga you read?
Azuma: Yeah, let me see. Something with a ninja. Maybe by Takeuchi Tsunayoshi-san (武内つなよし)...... Or it wasn't a ninja one. Something about firing a pistol.
Takeuchi Tsunayoshi (Wiki)
——Yeah, 'Akadou Suzunosuke' (赤胴鈴之助). So there must've been a part where a ninja fired a pistol (laughs).
Azuma: That's cause anything was possible back then.
——So your first manga was about a ninja firing a pistol, huh?
Azuma: (Laughs). Maybe back when I was an elementary schooler. I read monthly magazines like 'Hinomaru' (日の丸), 'Shounen' (少年), 'Bouken Ou' (冒険王), and 'Manga Ou' (まんが王). Also, there were a lot of supplementary books. I couldn't buy much at my home, so I borrowed them from friends and read them. It wasn't an environment where there was a house next door, but they were forbidden at school.
——So even though they were far away, you took long walks to borrow them, right?
Azuma: Yeah. The environment in a cultural context was harsh.
——I have the impression Azuma-sensei is an avid reader, but has that been the case back then?
Azuma: I didn't read any books back then. After all, the library at my elementary/middle school only had two shelves (laughs).
——So when did you start reading books?
Azuma: When I entered high school; there was a library there. I read things like 'Sin and Punishment' (罪と罰).
SF is an Element Fundamental to His Work
S: You read your first SF novel when you were in high school?
Azuma: When I was in middle school, there were supplements to things like 'Chuuni Jidai' (中二時代).
——What sort of story?
Azuma: Some story about teleportation, there was also another one about a small alien creature in a spaceship, but the setting was one where it moved by a human's brainwaves. Then it would carry a knife and murder the crew members one by one. So, there were two people left by the end, one was saying 'the one controlling the alien creature must've been you', but when the alien murdered the other person, it turned out they were the one controlling it after all.
S: That was an overseas SF?
Azuma: Mm, yes. But I don't remember the author's name. That's all I remember from reading it in middle school.
——So you started to seriously read since your high school days, and encountered works by Hoshi Shinichi-san (星新一) and Tsutsui Yasutaka-san (筒井康隆), whom you still like to this day.
Hoshi Shinichi (Wiki)
Tsutsui Yasutaka (Wiki)
Azuma: I read Hoshi-san, but Tsutsui-san hadn't made his debut yet.
——When I examine Azuma-sensei's works, I get the sense SF is very important to Sensei.
Azuma: SF is almost like my foundation. Though I don't read as much as I used to.
S: You said something about also reading mystery recently.
Azuma: Stuff by people like Michael Connelly.
——Yeah, he's famous for his Detective Harry Bosch series.
Azuma: A new work came out the other day. Though I read that one right away. Others include Lawrence Block and Dennis Lehane. Jeffrey Deaver and so on. Now, there's a lot of mystery. There's also some talented people in SF as well, like Greg Egan and Ted Chiang, but I can't get into them like I used to.
S: Around the time of 'Absurd Diary', you said your favourite authors were Tsutsui Yasutaka, Theodore Sturgeon, and Brian Aldiss.
Azuma: Tsutsui-san has been following me for a long time. Only Tsutsui-san hasn't really changed. A writer who liked Sturgeon and Aldiss when he was young.
S: In 1979, you won the Nebula Award in the comic category for 'Absurd Diary', and participated in the Japan SF Convention MEICON 3. How many SF conventions have you participated in?
Azuma: I believe I went about 3 times. But it's not very fun when people know my face. They ask me to sign stuff and try bringing me up to a podium. I guess the first time I participated was the most fun. Since no one knew my face, when I went to visit the room where the writers were chatting, Komatsu Sakyou (小松左京) spoke about me without knowing it was me.
Komatsu Sakyou (Wiki)
——About what?
Azuma: Something about Azuma Hideo sure is interesting, he did an SF called 'Desperate Angel' (やけくそ天使).
S: Also, 'Parallel Kyoushitsu' (パラレル狂室) received Hoshi Shinichi-san's approval.
Azuma: Yes, yes. Hoshi-san put it in as one of his top 5 ('My Top 5 Picks' [Weekly Bunshun] <週刊文春> 1980 January 3rd Issue).
——That must make you happy. Since he's a writer you liked since high school.
Azuma: I was very happy.
S: You serialised 'Michiru Metaphysics' (ミチル・メタフィジーク) in 'SF Magazine' (SFマガジン) back in 1979, but since it was in 'SF Magazine', I felt you drew it with a strong focus on the SF.
Azuma: That's right. I was very nervous about that.
S: On the other hand, I felt like you were playing in 'SF Magazine'.
Azuma: No, it was very hard. Afterwards, they heavily cut back on that sort of maniac stuff. I felt a little trapped.
——Returning to your high school days, you lived in a dorm during your first year, right? Why did you return home after your first year?
Azuma: My family moved into town.
M: Which was better? When you were in the dorm? Or when you commuted from home?
Azuma: Ah, the dorm was fun. I saw 'COM' and said 'I also have to give it a go'.
M: 'COM' was first published in 1967 around when you were a high schooler. Have you been reading it since its first issue?
Azuma: Yeah, that's right.
M: Were you in any kind of shock when you picked it up for the first time?
Azuma: It felt very fresh. You could say it hit all the key notes of manga mania.
——Aspiring mangaka who read 'COM' often become members, and you participated in 'Grand Companion' (ぐら・こん) which was held separately in each region. You were in your 3rd year of high school. Did someone invite you?
Azuma: A classmate called Matsuhisa Yuu (松久由宇) invited me. We moved to Tokyo together and he also became a mangaka.
Matsuhisa Yuu (Wiki)
——Matsuhisa-san drew many works such as 'Melancholic Wasteland' (哀愁荒野) and 'Night of the Hyena' (ハイエナの夜), he was really skilled at drawing. Have you read 'GARO' (ガロ)?
Azuma: Never saw it during my high school days; it wasn't at my bookstore.
M: More than any particular work or artist in 'COM' being shocking, it must've felt like the direction of the magazine itself was new, right? It felt very natural.
Azuma: That's right. Touge Akane-san's (峠あかね) reviews, I mean Masaki Mori-san's (真崎守). It was stirring the hearts of manga Shounen. When you look at the readers' column, everyone was very good. It felt like everyone was a rival. I also wanted to join in.
※T/L Note: Masaki Mori wrote reviews in COM under the alias Touge Akane (Wiki)
——Okada Fumiko-san (岡田史子) also came from the same hometown. Did you see her work when she made her debut?
Okada Fumiko (Wiki)
Azuma: As for Okada Fumiko, she's way out there. Shocking, hmm. But I didn't really understand it (laughs).
——What left the greatest impression on you in a published work itself?
Azuma: Well, Tezuka-sensei's 'Phoenix' (火の鳥), Ishinomori-sensei's (石ノ森章太郎) 'Jun' (ジュン), and Nagashima-sensei's (永島慎二) 'Wanderer' (フーテン) were incredible. All sorts of people drew, and I read them all from beginning to end.
Ishinomori Shoutarou (Wiki)
Nagashima Shinji (Wiki)
——Did you buy 'COM'?
Azuma: I bought it (laughs).
——Then was it 'COM' that made you want to become a mangaka?
Azuma: It was the 'Mangaka Introductory Guide for Boys' (少年のためのマンガ家入門) (Ishinomori Shoutarou/1965).
——So you hardly drew anything before reading that?
Azuma: I never drew. That's why I started drawing very late.
——If you read it right after it was published, then it must've been before 'COM'.
Azuma: It wasn't an introductory guide that teaches you how to draw regular manga, but rather it described the possibilities of manga.
——Did you think you could become a mangaka?
Azuma: Somehow, I felt like I could become one.
M: Did Sensei's parents understand you wanting to pursue a career in manga?
Azuma: No, I believe they didn't understand at all. So, umm, I first got a job at a printing company.
M: Between the desire to get out of the house and a yearning for Tokyo. Which feeling was stronger?
Azuma: After all, the greatest was wanting to leave home. My old man was very strict and told me to get a job elsewhere. In any case, it was painful to be near my parents. I always really hated, hated my childhood of being tied to my family. I wanted to be free as soon as possible.
M: Did you have the feeling 'Tokyo is the place if you want to become a mangaka'?
Azuma: Well, it happened. Being a mangaka was impossible if I didn't go to Tokyo. So while working at the printing company, I drew and submitted manga, thinking I would become a pro, but that was a huge mistake; I didn't have any time to draw at all. It was hard work, you see. I had no choice but to sleep after work. So I decided it wasn't feasible and quit. Then I slept in the Takadanobaba Park (laughs). I was out of my mind.
Greatly Influenced by Itai-Sensei's Pen-Touch
M: Your job was at Toppan Printing?
Azuma: Correct. I was doing stuff like cardboard printing.
——After you started living on your own, you didn't return home much, did you?
Azuma: I didn't return at all. However, after I quit my job, I ran out of money, and asked them to send some...... Their refusal was unforgettable.
——Harsh (laughs).
Azuma: Well, it cannot be helped, so...... I had no choice but to do it myself.
——How long did it take for you to become Itai Rentarou-sensei's (板井れんたろう) assistant after quitting your job?
Itai Rentarou (Wiki)
Azuma: I guess I was unemployed for about a month. At that time, I was sleeping in a park, but it was kinda cold, so it was probably May or June.
——At first you were freeloading, right? Until you entered Musashino-Sou (武蔵野荘).
Azuma: Musashino-Sou was after I became an assistant. Until then, I had been living with friends and sleeping at cafés. Well, I was also sleeping outdoors.
——Sleeping outdoors by the age of 18. What sort of person was Itai-sensei?
Azuma: He was famous for stuff like 'Potato General' (ポテト大将) and 'Thrill-kun' (スリルくん). And then some television stuff like 'Oraa Guzura Dato' (おらぁグズラだと) and 'Dokachin' (ドカチン). He mainly drew for shounen magazines. He's a Sensei of humour manga.
——What kind of personality did he have?
Azuma: Sensei was a very considerate, cheerful, and an unusually cool person. He was good at skiing.【Figure 1】
——Are there any parts you believe were influenced by Itai-sensei?
Azuma: I was very influenced by his pen-touch. Sensei used a Kabura-pen, but I, up until then, used nothing but a school pen. They're like the milli-pens (fineliner pens) used nowadays, so they could only draw a monotone, uniform line. How to push and relax your touch with a Kabura-pen. The way to use a Kabura-pen is unusually hard, but I practised there and after I became independent, I continued to use Kabura-pens.
——Do you use Kabura-pens even now?
Azuma: I stopped now, but I probably used them until about the middle of 'Nanako SOS' (ななこSOS). Afterwards, I switched to Nikko's G-pen.
——Those are a softer pen, right?
Azuma: Right. Kabura-pens put a lot of strain on your wrists. I still use G-pens. I tried comparing Zebra's G-pen with Nikko's G-pen. Nikko's are a little harder. Zebra is very soft, so you cannot touch very much. If you put a little pressure, it'll start to skreesh.
——So it's better if it has a slightly harder feel, right?
Azuma: That's right. I believe most people haven't noticed when I changed from Kabura-pens to G-pens.
——I didn't know. Speaking of which, Itai-sensei's lines are very pleasant lines, and Azuma-sensei's lines are similar in that they're also very pleasant lines. This may be abstract, but do you use anything besides G-pens?
Azuma: I use Milli-pens as well. I use Milli-pens for relatively light stuff.
——Milli-pens are for things like essays, and G-pens are for things like stories.
Azuma: Yes.
——What about 'Land-Crawling Fish' (地を這う魚)?
Azuma: That was all G-pen.
——What about 'Utsu-utsu Hideo Diary' (うつうつひでお日記)?
Azuma: That was Milli-pen.
——What about 'Disappearance Diary' (失踪日記)?
Azuma: 'Disappearance Diary' was a mixed-bag. I used both.
——Were you influenced in any other ways by Itai-sensei?
Azuma: His character body proportions. If it's a boy, then he would probably be 3 heads tall. If it's a girl, then she would be 4 or 5 heads tall.
——Why are the boys' proportions shorter?
Azuma: I bet it's because he has a low opinion of himself and glorifies women (laughs).
——(Laughs). Itai-sensei's girls are cute, aren't they?
Azuma: They're cute. No one else can draw Itai-sensei's cheek lines. They're such subtle, round lines. I suppose I was somewhat influenced when I was doing 'Hangover Dandy' (二日酔いダンディー). Sensei's girls are unique, he doesn't stop his pen on the cheek part; usually people immediately stop just before the cheeks swell.
——Does Itai-sensei draw in a single-stroke?
Azuma: He draws in one stroke. A stroke up to the chin.
——He begins at the chin and wobbles, right?
Azuma: Yes. This cannot be done. I couldn't do it, so I drew in my own style.
——What works did you help with when you were his assistant?
Azuma: When he was serialising 'Dokachin', I applied and got hired. He was recruiting in 'Shounen Sunday' (少年サンデー). So I believe I helped from 'Dokachin' to 'Dotamajinta' (ドタマジン太). 【Figure 2】
——Based on the chronology, you were there from the summer of 1968 to the summer of 1970.
Figure 1:
Figure 2:
He Likes Lines with a Nice Whoosh Sense
——You made your debut in 1969, but it was around this time gekiga was at its peak. However, Sensei's art style wasn't influenced by gekiga.
Azuma: I never came across rental manga. It was really rural, so there weren't any rental bookstores. All of my 'Grand Companion' associates, who were living in big cities like Sapporo or Otaru, read them, but I never read them. So, I wasn't influenced by gekiga.
——Gekiga began from magazines exclusive to rental bookstores, 'GARO' (ガロ) and seinen gekiga magazines, and moved to 'Weekly Shounen Magazine', so for Azuma-san's generation, there wouldn't be much of a connection if there weren't any rental bookstores. But if one examines your autobiography manga, since moving to Tokyo, you've been having heated discussions about Nagashima Shinji (永島慎二) and Tsuge Yoshiharu (つげ義春), right?
Nagashima Shinji (Wiki)
Tsuge Yoshiharu (Wiki)
Azuma: After moving to Tokyo, all of my friends had them, so I would borrow and read them. I've known Nagashima-san ever since he drew for 'COM'. And I like Tsuge-san, so I believe he influenced me.
——When you drew for seinen magazines, did you ever feel like you were the only one standing out because everyone else around you had a gekiga-ish art style?
Azuma: No, not particularly.
——Have you ever thought about changing yours?
Azuma: I practised a bit, but I thought it was kinda impossible (laughs).
——Was it a technical problem? Or was it because it wasn't interesting?
Azuma: It wasn't interesting, and it's also technically hard.
——Then, after all, small proportions and round, clean lines suited you.
Azuma: Yeah. When it came to drawing in detail, I liked John Tenniel in 'Alice in Wonderland', so when I wanted to draw in detail, I wanted that sort of art. I believe Tenniel influenced 'Land-Crawling Fish' (地を這う魚).
——Have you ever been told by an editor to change your current style and make it look more like gekiga?
Azuma: That never happened.
——Both Tezuka-san and Ishinomori-san gradually changed to a gekiga style when they shifted to 'Big Comic' (ビッグコミック). However, Azuma-sensei, who was influenced by the two of them, continued to draw in Sensei's art style.
Azuma: I simply like the early lines of Ishinomori-sensei and Tezuka-sensei. Their lines were neither too strong, nor too weak, they had a nice whoosh sense.
M: Regarding Tezuka-san and Ishinomori-san, which era's art style of their work did you like most?
Azuma: When it came to Tezuka-sensei, I liked 'The Adventure of Rock' (ロック冒険記), and when it came to Ishinomori-sensei, after all, I liked stuff like the early parts of 'Cyborg 009' (サイボーグ009). In his earlier SF works, ones like 'Mutant Sub' (ミュータント・サブ). His pant legs were flabby and made the silhouette of the legs thick. That was cool, you see (laughs).
——Your legs are thick, aren't they, Sensei?
Azuma: I was quite surprised when Chiba-san's 'Tomorrow's Joe' (あしたのジョー) changed to gekiga style. When 'Tomorrow's Joe' started, I was still working as an assistant, and said to Sensei, 'Chiba-san, isn't your art old?', so I was surprised when it became more and more like gekiga.
——Did you feel Chiba-sensei gradually fell outside your tastes?
Azuma: No. As for Chiba-san, it's a bit of a contradiction, but his was fine. However, I didn't want Tezuka-sensei and Ishinomori-sensei to change too much. Back then, Matsuhisa often went to work with Satou Masaaki-san (佐藤まさあき) and this assistant, and he was asked to draw a night scene of Tokyo, and it took him one full night to draw one panel. He really went at it. I thought there was no point in that (laughs).
Satou Masaaki (Wiki)
——Though it was probably indispensable in the pursuit of gekiga-style realism. In Sensei's case, you wanted to draw something much different.
Azuma: I guess thinking of just one gag is good enough for me.
M: Rather than finely drawing realism, do you prefer to draw fantastical worlds that look like the illustrations of a children's story?
Azuma: That's right. I guess the quality of realism is different. I didn't think of gekiga as realistic. Because the deformed ones were amazing.
M: How do you feel about something like Ootomo Katsuhiro-san (大友克洋)?
Ootomo Katsuhiro (Wiki)
Azuma: I liked the kind of realism in stuff like Moebius.
Moebius (Jean Giraud) (Wiki)
——Gekiga, and the art of Ootomo Katsuhiro and the french mangaka Moebius, are different from Azuma-san.
Azuma: That's right. They're probably different in terms of manga history. I believe things changed when Ootomo-san arrived. In the sense of realism.
——It's true when they say Ootomo-san was an epoch, but in terms of the trends of art styles, I believe you would see a flow from gekiga to Ootomo-san.
Azuma: When you look at Ootomo-san's early works, they weren't even gekiga. The real is real, but it's a photographic real.
M: They were very sharp drawings without the muddy scent of gekiga.
Azuma: That's right. I didn't like the muddy-scent of gekiga. It made me feel like it's riding a motorcycle, wearing a leather jacket, and carrying a machine gun.
S: On the other hand, you liked Robert Crumb, who is famous for 'Fritz the Cat', right?
Azuma: Yeah, I like Crumb.
——One could certainly say Crumb fills the lines of Azuma-sensei's art.
Azuma: I believe Crumb had some influence on me.
——I'm sure Tenniel's 'Alice in Wonderland' was widely available, but where did you see Crumb?
Azuma: As for Crumb, perhaps in a magazine published by Ono Kousei-san (小野耕世).
Ono Kousei (Wiki)
S: Yeah, he published 'Woo' (Seikousha [盛光社]) between 1972~1973, but it collapsed after the 4th issue. 'Fritz the Cat' was published as a tankoubon by the same publisher around the same time.
Azuma: 'Woo' was interesting, so it's a shame it's gone.
——Previously, I read that you said you liked the artists of what we now call 'adult manga', ones like Sonoyama Shunji (園山俊二), Fukuchi Housuke (福地泡介), and Shouji Sadao (東海林さだお).
Sonoyama Shunji (Wiki)
Fukuchi Housuke (Wiki)
Shouji Sadao (Wiki)
Azuma: That's because they all drew in 'Weekly Manga Sunday' (週刊漫画サンデー). At first, when I was a middle schooler, my home served as something of a dorm for the forest service, and there were separate buildings where people lodged together to train for skiing. My old man worked for the forest service, and we served as a ski training camp for the forest service members. The members would leave magazines, and 'Mansan' (Manga Sunday) was among them. Also stuff like 'Manga Reader' (漫画読本). I read them all through high school. 'Mansan' had many foreign one-panel manga, and they were very sophisticated.
M: Tezuka Osamu-sensei explained that his drawings were more like symbols or hieroglyphs than paintings, but what do you think, Azuma-sensei?
Azuma: I don't think so. In Tezuka-sensei's case, I believe his were in the position of a story manga. The themes were also epic. That's why the art existed for the story. I'm all about the characters, so for example, if I wanted to draw a cute girl, I would think about a story around her. So I don't think of it as a symbol. Especially when it comes to drawing females, he drew them in a way that makes one feel lustful.
——In the same period, other than gekiga, shoujo manga was very popular. Azuma-sensei was born in the 1950s, the same year as Takemiya Keiko-san (竹宮惠子). Hagio Moto-san (萩尾望都) was born a year earlier, and is actually part of the Year 24 Group (24年組) (laughs).
Takemiya Keiko (Wiki)
Hagio Moto (Wiki)
Azuma: (Laughs). Hagio-san and I were in the same grade.
——Did you read shoujo manga before or around your debut?
Azuma: I never read them.
——Have you read Tezuka-sensei or Ishinomori-sensei's shoujo manga.
Azuma: I read those.
——When did you first become aware of Hagio-san's work?
Azuma: Around the time I drew 'Futari to Gonin' (ふたりと5人).
——That would be around 1972~1973. What triggered that?
Azuma: The influence of my wife.
——You got married in 1973.
Azuma: There was Hagio-san, Kihara Toshie-san (木原敏江), and many others. Then I started to read shoujo manga profusely. 'November Gymnasium' (11月のギムナジウム) was interesting. I knew Yamato Waki-san (大和和紀) from the same hometown, and I also knew Tadatsu Youko-san (忠津陽子). I think I also read Nishitani Yoshiko (西谷祥子).
Kihara Toshie (Wiki)
Yamato Waki (Wiki)
Tadatsu Youko (Wiki)
Nishitani Yoshiko (Wiki)
S: There was a story you went to Yamato-san and Tadatsu's home to ask for a loan and they refused (laughs). Was that during your assistant days when you were 18, 19 years old?
Azuma: Yeah. They both made their debut around that time. Takemiya Keiko-san published something in 'COM'. But, well, I never read shoujo manga until my wife told me about them.
The Legendary Lolicon Doujinshi 'Cybele'
M: After your debut, you drew various gag works for major weekly manga magazines, and then started working on works for maniacs and Lolicon-types. In 1979, you published the legendary Lolicon doujinshi 'Cybele' (シベール). Did the idea to draw ero in the so-called manga art style come from shooting the breeze with your assistants? Or did the inspiration come from within?
Azuma: Oki Yukao (沖由佳雄), Hirukogami Ken (蛭児神建), and I were talking endlessly about Lolicon at a café in Ekoda called Manga Garou (まんが画廊). I believe it started with Hirukogami-san calling out to me. He said he liked Pipi from the anime 'Triton of the Sea' (海のトリトン) and would often trace drawings of her.
Oki Yukao (Wiki)
Hirukogami Ken (Wiki)
M: Basically, was the one who said to release 'Cybele' Sensei? Or was it Oki-san?
Azuma: I said we should release it.
M: So, Oki-san gathered members at Manga Garou. Could you say the concept to create a doujinshi as Lolicon was in mind from the very beginning?
Azuma: Yes.
M: Were you inspired by Hirukogami-san? Or was it a combination of many other factors?
Azuma: I don't really know. It was by coincidence those sorts of guys were gathered at Manga Garou.
M: Was the word Lolicon a keyword at that point? Or did you use another word?
Azuma: I believe it was Lolicon.
M: You also contributed manuscripts for the doujinshi called 'Lolita' (ロリータ) Hirukogami-san published back then, but did Hirukogami-san give a request to Azuma-Sensei saying, 'Please draw a manga with this sort of content'?
Azuma: No, there was no content specification. At the time, 'Cybele' was also being prepared.
——So the plans to create Lolicon doujinshi were proceeding at the same time.
Azuma: That's why Hirukogami-san also drew for 'Cybele'. You could say we were helping each other out.
——Hirukogami-san's 'Arisu' (愛栗鼠) came out first, and following that, 'Cybele' issue 0 was released, but all of them were happening within the same circle?
Azuma: That's right.
M: Did Hirukogami-san have a particularly strong Lolicon hobby?
Azuma: I don't really know. But he wrote some pretty radical stuff.
——However he left home to become a priest, and became a Buddhist monk.
Azuma: Yes, and he even got married. I thought that was impossible (laughs).
M: In Azuma-sensei's case, more than having a solid preference for it, did you drew those as a type of parody?
Azuma: Well, you could say that kind of thing is interesting. It felt like a challenge to established manga. So it was like half hobby and half joke. That's why I was always aware of the fact 'this kinda stuff's no good' when I drew it, but the other youngsters were drawing it cause they really liked it (laughs).
——So Azuma-sensei was probably aware you were doing something new, right?
Azuma: There wasn't a genre like that, so I wonder.
——Did it feel like this sort of thing can only be done in doujinshi at first?
Azuma: That was true at the time. At first, there was a preparatory issue for 'Cybele', but I drew that.
S: Issue 0. It was a copy-zine, I believe.
Azuma: That's right. I drew a parody manga of 'Nippen no Miko-chan' (日ペンの美子ちゃん), I believe.
——The one by Nakayama Seika-san (中山星香), right?
Nakayama Seika (Wiki)
Azuma: Who?
——The creator of Miko-chan went by the name of Yabuki Reiko (矢吹れいこ), but she was drawn by the fantasy mangaka Nakayama Seika-san. She's currently a veteran of 'Princess' (プリンセス).
Azuma: Ehh, I didn't know that. Though I'm acquainted with Nakayama-san.
S: After that, you even drew in the commercial magazine 'Shoujo Alice'. That was a vending machine book, but you were fine with that, right?
Azuma: I had some reservations. I didn't want to be too inconspicuous. However, when I handed over my first manuscript, I was very embarrassed. I handed them over out in the street, but asked him not to read them there (laughs).
S: Around that time, you were working on 'Absurd Diary' in the vending machine book 'Gekiga Alice' (劇画アリス) and Lolicon stuff for the photography-based 'Shoujo Alice'. The thing you drew first for a commercial magazine was 'Gogo no Inkou' (午後の淫荒) (1980).
Azuma: That's right.
M: When you drew Lolicon-type works, do you believe for example that girls depicted in Tezuka's or Ishinomori's works were part of your formative experience?
Azuma: Tezuka-sensei and Ishinomori-sensei's girls probably influenced me.
——Who is your favourite girl character among Ishinomori-san and Tezuka-san?
Azuma: A strong-willed, fierce-eyed girl that appeared in Ishinomori's 'TV Boy' (テレビ小僧). And either Uran-chan from 'Astro Boy' (鉄腕アトム) or 'Ribbon Knight' (リボンの騎士).
——Your Tezuka-san choices are standard fare. Your Ishinomori-san choice seems to be one who comes to mind only for those who like that sort.
The Moment of the Birth of Japanese 'Kawaii Ero'
Azuma: I was also influenced by shoujo manga. There's a lack of reality in the bishoujo of shoujo manga and a lack of sex appeal in gekiga.
——You thought gekiga had no sex appeal.
Azuma: No sex appeal. I thought gekiga's ero wasn't erotic at all, but apparently the general public thought so as well. Cause after we released 'Cybele', everything afterwards became that sort of magazine (laughs). So everyone must've thought that way.
——(Laughs)
Azuma: Everyone wanted to see ero in Tezuka-san or Ishinomori-san's art, or the art of shoujo manga. Right before 'Cybele', I was copying shoujo manga and drawing ero doodles.
M: What kind of shoujo manga were you copying?
Azuma: I don't remember much, but it basically had huge eyes.
——It's not someone like Mutsu A-ko (陸奥A子), is it?
Mutsu A-ko (Wiki)
Azuma: Mutsu A-ko doesn't have much sex appeal. I don't remember whose art specifically, but I copied just the faces from shoujo manga and the bodies were the type by Tezuka and Ishinomori. When I combined them, it became very erotic.
——Isn't that the moment of the birth of 'kawaii ero art', the essence of modern Japanese aesthetics?
Azuma: I guess (laughs).
——After that, you established an art style【Figure 3】that was very much you, Sensei. In the beginning of 'Desperate Angel' (やけくそ天使) (1975), the proportions of the protagonist 【Figure 4】, Asoko Soko (阿素湖素子), were uneven, but in the sequel after 'Cybele', 'Desperate Apocalypse' (やけくそ黙示録) (1981), Asoko-san's proportions【Figure 5】weren't uneven at all (laughs).
Azuma: (Laughs)
M: Though there was one panel in 'Disappearance Diary' (失踪日記) where you say, "We'll drive out Yaoi".
——I believe the more accurate words at the time were probably 'Aesthetic' (耽美) or 'Bishounen' (美少年).
M: It was a situation where Comic Market was filled to the brim with that sort of Bishounen stuff. Why did that sort of rivalry-like thing emerge?
Azuma: Well, you see, I read some Yaoi books, but I neither understood nor enjoyed them, and they also didn't particularly excite me. The ones who were happy were only women. I couldn't understand why such a thing was getting carried away, acting bossy with a big face.
——They were selling quite well.
Azuma: They almost had a monopoly. I believe about 80%.
——It was around the time when stuff like 'Manken Queen' (漫研QUEEN) and 'ROSE CROSS' were at their peak.
Azuma: There was also the fact men felt uncomfortable being there, like fish out of water.
M: Did you think if you drew it and put it out, like-minded fellows would come?
Azuma: That's right. We had doubts whether there were only a few of us who liked that sort of thing. So, although we wanted to draw it ourselves, the desire to read it drawn by others was at the root of it.
——In 1979, your shoujo manga 'Flap-Flap Donkey' (翔べ翔べドンキ―) began serialisation in 'Princess' (プリンセス), and the following month, you released 'Cybele'. You were really naughty, weren't you (laughs)?
Azuma: (Laughs)
——Have you ever been asked by the editors from other publishing companies to cease your doujin activities for things like 'Cybele' or your work in 'Shoujo Alice'?
Azuma: I was asked (laughs).
——What did you do?
Azuma: Ignored them.
M: Do you mean they asked, 'please spare time for your own manuscripts you draw commercially', or did they ask 'please stop drawing erotic stuff'?
Azuma: Because Akita Shoten was tentatively a major manga publisher. They told me, "Don't draw for a vending machine book like that".
Figure 3:
Figure 4:
Figure 5:
The First Time a Line Formed at Comic Market
M: I heard 'Cybele' had a tremendous response.
Azuma: It was quiet until around the 3rd issue, but from around the 4th or 5th issue, they suddenly started selling, we also changed the printing...... I think?
S: Until the 2nd issue, they were probably copy-books, and then you used normal printing when you resold the 2nd issue. Sensei, you paid for that out of your own pocket, right?
Azuma: I had a tentative sponsor.
M: Did Sensei sell them at the venue?
Azuma: I sold the first ones, issues 1 and 2.
S: I believe there were 200~300 copies for issues 1 and 2.
Azuma: Yeah.
——I heard 'Cybele' was the first circle that had a line at Comiket. I heard it from someone who was working as a venue organiser at the time. There used to be crowds of people in front of circles, but I believe the time they held it at the Kawasaki Civic Plaza was the first time they had to organise a line.
Azuma: I guess so. I stopped going by then.
S: It sounded like there were rumours whispered about issues 1 and 2. Their covers were also black.
Azuma: Then after around issue 3, they started calling them the 'mysterious black books'. The covers were completely black with nothing written on them.
M: Why did you use black covers?
Azuma: It's something one mustn't see. 'Forbidden to minors under the age of 18' is clearly written, you see.
M: Were there any title ideas other than 'Cybele'?
Azuma: No, I feel like we easily settled on 'Cybele'.
S: It's from the movie 'Sundays & Cybele' (シベールの日曜日) (1962/France), right?
Azuma: That's right. It was being shown on television back then.
S: At the time, it was being broadcast on NHK, I'm certain. For some reason, I remember it being broadcast on NHK.
Azuma: I also remember watching it while I worked and being quite moved by it.
M: So you were the father who named it, Azuma-sensei?
Azuma: Probably. I remember using the name Cybele. At the time of its inception, there was only Oki-kun and me. Afterwards, Nishina Souichi-kun (仁科蒼一) also joined us.
M: After that, a lolicon manga commercial magazine called 'Lemon People' was born, and then Japanese ero-manga was dyed with the hue of bishoujo. Were you aware this originated as your own invention?
Azuma: Rather there was such a demand, and I was kinda the spark. I felt like everyone was backing me up.
M: In a sense, it exists because you created that spark.
Azuma: Right. If I hadn't done it, I believe it would've come a little later.
——So you're saying even if you didn't do it, it would've come somewhere, someday?
Azuma: I believe so. Cause there's an inevitability in the flow of history.
——But if it wasn't for Azuma-sensei, it probably wouldn't have become as universal. How do I say it......? Something that appeals to the Japanese aesthetic of liking cute things......?
Azuma: I never thought it would become so major. I felt I would be happy if there were more people drawing it. Then in the blink of an eye, a slew of similar books starting appearing. Was there such a demand? From that point on, I guess I already grew bored of it, and 'Cybele' also collapsed.
S: Cybele released its 7th issue, and in the summer of 1981, you created the illustrated doujinshi 'Myaa-chan Sensual Photograph Collection' (ミャアちゃん官能写真集) based on the heroine Myaa-chan from 'Scrap School' (スクラップ学園) you serialised in 'Play Comic' (プレイコミック). Afterwards, you didn't create any doujinshi until 'Direct from Azuma Magazine' (産直あづまマガジン) in recent years.
Azuma: I believe so. Though I've also been drawing a little since then.
M: Stuff like 'Lemon People' were popping out all over. When 'Lemon People' and 'Manga Burikko' were released, was there a feeling of this started by your own spark coming to the fore with a 'hurrah!'? Or was there a feeling of 'originally this was supposed to be secret, yet now it's out in the open......'?
Azuma: The latter. I was consciously thinking this shouldn't be done out in the open. Also, since I'm a gag mangaka, I'm the type who isn't satisfied unless I try something new. New artists were coming out one after the other, and since everyone's so good, I wondered if I would be good enough.
M: It's been quite a while since you exhibited 'Cybele' at Comic Market, but you've recently released another Comiket doujinshi 'Direct from Azuma Magazine', right? What was your impression when you returned?
Azuma: When I started making it, I outsourced it to 'Super Girl Company' (すーぱーがーるカンパニー), and the rest was through mail-order; I haven't been to the venue. The other day, I went to the winter Comiket for the first time in a long time, though.
M: 2010 December's 'Comic Market 79', eh? How was it?
Azuma: I was surprised by its large scale. It's completely different from the past.
S: When Azuma-sensei participated, I believe there were about 300 circles, and even during the time of the most crowded 'Myaa-chan Sensual Photograph Collection', at the Yokohama Sanbo Hall (1981 'Comic Market 18'), there were probably at most 500 circles. Nowadays, there's around 35,000 circles.
M: Did you have the impression the people gathering there changed?
Azuma: Somehow, I felt like it became sophisticated. Err, it's very orderly with proper lines, you see. Well, I've only seen it at one place. I didn't see its entire scale, but even then, it was incredible.
——I believe your impression won't change even looking at it as a whole. Everything is orderly.
Azuma: Right. It was amazing.
Strange Combination: Bishoujo and Weird Creatures
M: Azuma-sensei, through your various works, you depict all sorts of situations involving Bishoujo. Entwining Bishoujo with weird creatures and machines.
Azuma: There's a similar tendency among people who draw Lolicon-type stuff, but there seems to be a portion who don't want to draw men. Other youngsters have also said if it's possible, they don't want to draw men.
——Was that already the case since the beginning of 'Cybele'?
Azuma: Yeah, that's right. I suppose there's a feeling where they want themselves to disappear, or to hide themselves.
——Though combining stuff with weird creatures has been in other existing manga, they didn't go as far as making them erotic, did you want to push that sort of scene further?
Azuma: Maybe, though I believe I was influenced by some existing manga.
M: Tezuka-sensei perhaps?
Azuma: Tezuka-sensei had some kind of squishy sun, didn't he? I believe Tezuka-sensei had a profound influence on me.
——You mean Astro Boy's 'Artificial Sun Arc' (人工太陽の巻), right? Did you get your cat ears (nekomimi) from Ooshima Yumiko-san's (大島弓子) 'Star of Cottonland (綿の国星)?
Ooshima Yumiko (Wiki)
Azuma: No, that was completely unrelated.
——I heard you mention Ooshima Yumiko-san when it came to Myaa-chan's loose socks【Figure 6】, so I figured that was the case. Where did the cat ears for 'Sham Cat' (シャン・キャット) 【Figure 7】come from?
Azuma: Cat ears? She's simply an ordinary cat. Because she's a cat, she has cat ears.
——But there's quite a few animals in Sensei's works. Black-chan from 'Buratto Bunny' (ぶらっとバニー) had bunny ears (usamimi). There were also mice among many others.
Azuma: That's true. Ah, I see, that's Tezuka-sensei's style.
——There were many things that metamorphose with Tezuka-san, huh?
Azuma: I believe the roots are right there.
M: Would it be this particular work? I mean something like 'W3 (Wonder Three)'?
Azuma: 'W3' was amazing, I was moved. The last part was especially amazing.
S: Captain Bokko was an alien who transformed into a bunny, and she had a transformation scene. Hoshi Shinichi (星真一) was the protagonist. And Captain Bokko is also from Hoshi-san's work 'Bokko-chan'.
Azuma: I noticed the protagonist's name, but I didn't notice Bokko-chan's (laughs).
——Many fighting Bishoujo appear in Sensei's works. Ever since the very early days of 'The Iroppuru' (ざ・色っぷる) (1970), the girls were very strong and fighting. Including Asoko Soko from 'Desperate Angel' (1975) and Myaa-chan from 'Scrap School' (1980). There's even a strong schoolgirl in 'Fighting Family' (格闘ファミリー) (1978), do you believe that was influenced by something?
Azuma: Yeah——.
——Actually, only Nanako from 'Nanako SOS' (1980) had a slightly different personality, in some sense. She's weak-willed and a crybaby. But Nanako was also a strong battle uniform Bishoujo.
Azuma: I'm not only physically weak, but also mentally weak, so as a reaction to that, there's a part of me that admires strong humans, but I'm not interested in drawing that with men.
——Why don't you find that interesting?
Azuma: Why?
M: Have you ever experienced a desire to become a Bishoujo?
Azuma: I also drew that in a manga called 'Night Buzz' (夜のざわめき) (1980), but perhaps I have that sort of desire. Also, I don't really believe women are inherently weak.
——I see, Myaa-chan and Asoko Soko-chan were amazing as girl images at the time. They were smoking and drinking sake, and somehow acting slovenly with men. There were so many people like them, and in fact, there are so many women like them right now (laughs). I was wondering if Azuma-sensei's ideal image of a woman, or his views on women, were injected into this.
Azuma: I believe that reflects the female image I have had since childhood. I felt like women in general were being oppressed. Or rather, the weak. The same goes for men, but there was a system where the weak without physical strength were being dominated by men with loud voices.
——You didn't like that.
Azuma: Yeah, I didn't like it. I hated it. That's why I wanted to portray an independent female image. Also, my sexuality is different from my sexual interests, but when it comes to doing protagonists, it's more refreshing to have ones with that kind of strength. It's moving.
M: So where does Sensei's sexuality lie? What kind of girl do you like?
Azuma: A plain girl who doesn't stand out, almost playing a supporting role. Well, something like a quiet-looking girl with long hair who lines up at the back when it comes to crowd scenes, or ones that hardly speak.
M: Something like Nanako?
Azuma: Nanako's pretty close.
——Nanako is a girl with the ideal personality and the ideal strength.
Azuma: Yeah, right.
——Were you told by any editors not to make a girl the protagonist?
Azuma: They weren't too happy with them, you see.
——This may have not been the case around the time of 'Nanako SOS', but around the time of 'Desperate Angel', there weren't many manga aimed at men with girl protagonists. Did you receive any support from the fans?
Azuma: There may have been some support. 'Desperate Angel' was popular. 'Scrap School' was a little lukewarm. Though the characters were very popular.
M: Was the motif of a girl fighting in a uniform born as an extension of strong women, making it easier for them to move as the protagonist?
Azuma: Yeah. I've always liked the sexiness of uniforms.
——Especially not just stuff like nurses, but school uniforms.
Azuma: Yeah.
M: You drew both blazer characters and sailor blouse characters, so I was wondering if those were conscious decisions.
Azuma: That's what I was interested in at the time.
M: Do you have some kind of fetish for clothing?
Azuma: I do. I have very specific fetishes. I like things like white shirts. I like frills. You could say there's something about the shoulders swelling.
——Puffed sleeves.
Azuma: Puffed, huh? I like puffed.
——What kind of frills do you like?
Azuma: The chest and sleeves. Also, neckties, I like all sorts of neckties. The pleats in skirts have been my lifelong theme, but I cannot draw them at all.
——The pleats in skirts have been 'my' lifelong theme. Sounds cool (laughs).
Azuma: (Laughs)
——I wonder if you were influenced by Wada Shinji-san (和田慎二). Wada-san is famous for 'Delinquent Girl Detective' (スケバ刑事) (1976), and before she appeared as a battle uniform Bishoujo in 'Delinquent Girl Detective', she was a normal secretary in 'Super Girl Asuka' (超少女明日香) (1975), but there's a story where she wears a sailor blouse, she becomes a very strong fighting Bishoujo. During battle scenes, her bangs part and her eyes appear, changing her into an incredible Bishoujo. Sensei even parodied it in 'Absurd Diary'......
Wada Shinji (Wiki)
Azuma: Yeah, that's right.
——This is different from the topic of Bishoujo, but you often drew about mad scientists.
Azuma: Yeah.
——My personal mad scientist image was completely from Azuma-sensei's manga. Actually, mad scientists don't show up too much in Tezuka-san nor Ishinomori-san either. If I were forced to name one from them, I would pick Doctor Tenma (天馬博士).
Azuma: The foundation is from SF novels.
S: Originating from Mrs. Shelley's 'Frankenstein', there's stuff like H. G. Wells' 'The Time Machine' and Belyaev's 'Professor Dowell's Head'.
Azuma: Mad scientists in SF often invent time machines, summon demons, and many more things like that. I forget the name of the author, but there's one about a man who returns home and finds his wife kissing someone, cheating on him, so he rushes to his laboratory and suddenly builds a time machine. That scene is above reproach, somehow.
——No way (laughs).
M: You sometimes depict situations where a Shoujo is turned into a robot by such a mad scientist, but is there a reason behind making her ears look like antennae as a symbol of her robotisation?
Azuma: I recall there was such a thing in Miyakoshi Yoshikatsu-san's (宮腰義勝) 'Space Boy Soran' (宇宙少年ソラン), stuff like '8-Man' (エイトマン), and traditional superhero stories.
Miyakoshi Yoshikatsu (Wiki)
M: Since then, even in Bishoujo games, the shape of the ears are often changed when they depict robot girls. I believe there weren't too many doing that with Shoujo.
Azuma: That's right. In my case, you could say the combination is strange.
——How do you come up with those kinds of combinations?
Azuma: I believe it's unconscious. What I usually think about is what kind of things make me feel eroticism, so I guess it wells up whenever I write notes.
——So, you weren't thinking it would be new if you do this or it would be interesting?
Azuma: Yeah, I don't consider such things. It's all ad lib.
Figure 6:
Figure 7:
What He Thinks of 'Otaku'
——Later creators absorbed the essence of Azuma-sensei's works and many works appeared afterwards, and many people began to accept this and they came to be called 'Otaku'. What does Sensei think about Otaku?
Azuma: There are parts I think are amazing and respectable, and there are parts I'm unable to follow.
——What parts do you respect?
Azuma: They're very knowledgeable in one field.
M: Do you feel like you, yourself, belong in the Otaku community?
Azuma: No.
——You're conscious of your SF-mania. How are they different? SF-maniacs and Otaku.
Azuma: I believe there are quite a few similarities.
S: The word Otaku appeared in the early 1980s, but if anything, it feels like it's a word used for stuff like anime fans. So, if anything, SF may deviate from the Otaku image.
Azuma: That may be the case.
——Then which parts do you believe you're unable to follow?
Azuma: They're very picky. It feels like they won't tolerate even the slightest scratch or dent.
——Specifically, have you encountered someone you thought looked like an Otaku?
Azuma: My assistant, Oki-kun, was like one (laughs).
——You also drew anime-related illustrations for 'OUT', but did you have any assistants or fans that were young Otaku, who taught you various things?
Azuma: Yeah, I did. I learned a lot of information from them.
——You generously provided illustrations for the doujinshi of your fans. Speaking of which, they were often drawn back then, but even now, Myaa-chan and Nanako are often drawn.
Azuma: Nanako and Myaa-chan have not died as characters【Figure 8】, even now, they live on inside me. On the other hand, I'm no longer able to draw crazy characters like 'Bukimi' (不気味) 【Figure 9】and 'Nahaha' (ナハハ)【Figure 10】. I have a fear I'll have a mental breakdown.
——So you're also unable to draw another 'Nota, The Fish' (のた魚)【Figure 11】?
Azuma: Yeah. Now I'm unable to release stuff like 'Lost My Tail' (シッポがない)【Figure 12】.
——Shocking. But if that's the reason, it cannot be helped. However, you still draw weird creatures.
Azuma: That's right.
——Does 'Nota, The Fish' have any roots?
Azuma: It's a derivative of 'Nahaha'.
——Ahh, so it's a fish version of 'Nahaha'.
Azuma: I like fish and reptiles. Also, when it comes to Tezuka-sensei, cute animals show up, you see. You could also describe them as very sexy. Though I lean towards the gross side, but they're not completely gross; there's something charming about them.
——Why were all the people around 'Land-Crawling Fish' not people, but animals?
Azuma: Even I don't know. I would like critics to examine this (laughs).
Figure 8:
Figure 9:
Figure 10:
Figure 11 & 12:
As for Nonsense, Repetition is Forbidden
M: Generally speaking, it is said those who draw gag manga have a shorter lifespan than those who draw story manga, but do you think there's that sort of tendency in reality?
Azuma: I think so. I don't want to do the same thing. I need to think of several different jokes for one story. When it comes to gag for example, you need to put 3 things in one page.
——So 48 jokes in 16 pages. There's a flow when you follow the story of a person's life, but gags don't really flow in that sense, so it's quite hard.
Azuma: But I do them because I love them, so it cannot be helped.
——Do you enjoy coming up with gags?
Azuma: Well, now it's painful, so I don't do them.
——You don't do them?
Azuma: Well, I do them unconsciously. Even when writing things like Diary, I seem to include them. But I don't want to think about them as much as possible.
——Have you ever thought of drawing a long manga? Do shorter works suit you better?
Azuma: There's stuff I want myself to draw. But what I want to draw doesn't come from inside myself, so it ends up falling into self-imitation. It's better I stop at an appropriate place.
——You don't like self-imitation?
Azuma: Correct. But I did it.
——There are some people who can imitate themselves quite easily.
Azuma: That's fine for everyday home dramas. If you're doing nonsense like me, then doing the same thing is forbidden.
——It's forbidden?
Azuma: Because you'll soon reach your limit. It's better to change the story at an appropriate point.
——People who are good at gags are actually good at serious stories. 'Disappearance Diary' and 'Land-Crawling Fish' may be serious stories in the style of Azuma-sensei.
Azuma: Yeah, that's true. The art is gag art, though. It doesn't matter even if you draw serious with gag art. Fujiko F. Fujio (藤子・F・不二雄) also draws that way.
Fujiko F. Fuji (Wiki)
About the Manga He Appeared In
The character of Sensei, himself, often appears in Sensei's works, was there a reason behind this?
Azuma: Since long ago, I enjoyed manga that featured the artist. Like Morita Kenji-san (森田拳次) in 'Marude Dameo' (丸出だめ夫). Well, Tezuka-sensei and Ishinomori-sensei were also like that.
Morita Kenj (Wiki)
——That's true.
Azuma: As for why I like it...... Probably cause it looked fun being in the manga. I believe it's partly because my childhood wasn't fun.
——I see.
Azuma: When I was looking at my old manga, before my debut, I was drawing a self-insert even in the manga outside the limits of Sunday【Figure 13】. Playing inside the manga.
M: Is there an origin to the asymmetrical way you draw the eyes of your self-insert?
Azuma: In the past, one of my eyes was a monolid and the other was a double eyelid, so I drew them that way. Now they're both the same, so the realism is gone.
——Simple symbolism. But Azuma-sensei would be lonely without this. Rather than drawing your daily life, you place yourself in a mixture of reality and fiction.
Azuma: Yeah.
——The same goes for 'Absurd Diary'. 'Utsu-utsu Hideo Diary' is a fairly normal essay, but somehow in the middle, you drew full-body images of girls and illustrations of figurines.
Azuma: (Laughs)
——It feels like you didn't just draw a casual essay. Also, many artists who draw essay manga are women. I believe there's surprisingly few male artists like Azuma-sensei who can express themselves without hesitation.
Azuma: In my case, it's already turned into a character called 'Azuma is Hideo' (吾妻がひでお). He turned into a person who has absolutely nothing to do with me.
——Recently, there's been an increase in the number of male mangaka who draw interesting essay manga as well, people like Fukumitsu Shigeyuki-san (福満しげゆき) and Enomoto Shunji-san (榎本俊二). In the essays drawn by girls, I feel there's a close distance between the self that's introduced and what's happening to them. In the essays drawn by men, there's a certain distance between the self that's introduced and what's happening, but I feel a closeness in the manga where Azuma-sensei's 'Azuma character' appears. I believe Azuma-sensei is also a male essay mangaka walking ahead of them.
Fukumitsu Shigeyuki (Wiki)
Enomoto Shunji (Wiki)
Azuma: Maybe so.
——What was it like when you worked on 'Absurd Diary'? Were you in a certain kind of mood when you drew yourself as a character【Figure 14】?
Azuma: I had a lot of trouble drawing 'Absurd Diary', though......
——What caused you trouble? Was it a pressure you had to do SF?
Azuma: Yeah (laughs). When I told them I liked Tsutsui-san, they told me to draw like Tsutsui-san. That was kinda impossible (laughs). But, well, I guess it's a parody of Tsutsui-san.
——Was it a parody Sensei appeared in from the very beginning?
Azuma: Ah, it wasn't. I was thinking of a proper story.
——While it's difficult, you introduced yourself.
Azuma: Yes. At the very end.
——What has made you the happiest in your life as a mangaka so far?
Azuma: Drawing SF in 'Absurd Diary and winning the Nebula Award.
——After all, you struggled to draw it. You must've been happy to have your SF acknowledged.
Azuma: Yeah.
——Then what was the hardest time?
Azuma: The hardest was when I was working on 'Futari to Gonin'. Following its weekly serialisation, I said I wanted to end it many times, but it was no good. It continued for 12 tankoubon, but it was really hard.
——Ehh!? So it was harder when you were drawing weekly serials than when you couldn't draw, when you disappeared, or when you experienced alcohol poisoning?
Azuma: Well, it was also hard being an alcoholic and homeless (laughs).
Figure 13:
Figure 14:
Extra Stuff:
Takahashi Rumiko Gift Art:
Azuma Hideo & Hagio Moto Collaboration Manga: